Plummers Help

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Tinytiger, I think you and I are on the same page genetically regarding time and work, the problem I have is exactly what you say, I am having to breed off young dogs that have not had 5 or 6 yrs serious work in order to get to the target dogs required, is the end product going to be of use ?? I hope so and at 56yrs old I find myself running out of time to do the kind of testing of progeny that is needed for healthy working stock, anyone can breed for colour, coat, size, but they must be healthy and of the right temperament and drive for work, decent Plummer must be able to do earthwork as a given, this is a basic quality for any terrier but you are as aware as I am that this is the exception and not the rule,we have already seen some big losses lately to the gene pool of earthdogs by losing "Bramble" and "Brier" to ground at Christmas, these 2 bitches were the only decent small sized registered Plummers of note being worked and they produced some good types, "ACE" gained a reputation quickly but he is producing pups that are "cobby" and larger than himself proving genetically he must of just been an odd small pup in that litter, a stud dog needs to have "prepotency" in order to progress that breed and that means producing replica's of himself like on a production line, typey and of the right size and able to pass on his work ethic, WM

[Tozer 385]

I understand the arguments about breeding terriers for earth work, and keeping the breed moving in the right direction for this.

 

But there seems to be good call for ratting/bushing/shooting dogs, is there any harm in producing terriers aimed towards this?

 

I like terriers, and they way they work cover etc, but don't have any great urge to dig. I know the argument is to get a something with spaniel or beagle in it, but I grew up with a couple of spaniels my dad had and still prefer terriers.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

Tinytiger, I think you and I are on the same page genetically regarding time and work, the problem I have is exactly what you say, I am having to breed off young dogs that have not had 5 or 6 yrs serious work in order to get to the target dogs required, is the end product going to be of use ?? I hope so and at 56yrs old I find myself running out of time to do the kind of testing of progeny that is needed for healthy working stock, anyone can breed for colour, coat, size, but they must be healthy and of the right temperament and drive for work, decent Plummer must be able to do earthwork as a given, this is a basic quality for any terrier but you are as aware as I am that this is the exception and not the rule,we have already seen some big losses lately to the gene pool of earthdogs by losing "Bramble" and "Brier" to ground at Christmas, these 2 bitches were the only decent small sized registered Plummers of note being worked and they produced some good types, "ACE" gained a reputation quickly but he is producing pups that are "cobby" and larger than himself proving genetically he must of just been an odd small pup in that litter, a stud dog needs to have "prepotency" in order to progress that breed and that means producing replica's of himself like on a production line, typey and of the right size and able to pass on his work ethic, WM

Ace is the brother to my bitch Amber and a son of Ivy. all these terriers i find are on the borderline of to small.

[Flacko 1,732]

What's to small height head or not proportioned right atb

[HGN 150]

 

I'll tell you exactly why as I've had this conversation with him about the "Hacket white" first time round,

 

 

Was there any evidence that he ever used the Hackett White? It was claimed that it was related to 'the' Jimmy boots etc but the timelines were all wrong.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

 

 

I'll tell you exactly why as I've had this conversation with him about the "Hacket white" first time round,

 

 

Was there any evidence that he ever used the Hackett White? It was claimed that it was related to 'the' Jimmy boots etc but the timelines were all wrong.

 

Like many things he said,you just would'nt know,I seen a litter bred off a yorkie/patt stud dog from Blackburn in the late 70's so who knows ?? I never heard him mention it in any book, the head and body size came from somewhere but only he would know, WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

C.S. I don't think a baying type terrier can be too small for earthwork,if they try and mix it with a small head then it can be a problem,the size can be a positive in the speed around the earth forcing a nice clean bolt,other's like a bigger dog that will stand toe to toe but thats why there are different strains of the same breed in order to supply those needs,I like a 12"TTS type but I do like them to throw dogs of a similar size to themselves and not bigger,I will still try a mating from "ACE's" son just to see what he throws over this bitch but he is 14"TTS and a strong type,however he is getting plenty of work,sometimes we just have to see what comes out, WM

 

 

This is my bitch that will be lined

[Flacko 1,732]

What size is she wc and how old ?

[fireman 10,774]

Tinytiger, I think you and I are on the same page genetically regarding time and work, the problem I have is exactly what you say, I am having to breed off young dogs that have not had 5 or 6 yrs serious work in order to get to the target dogs required, is the end product going to be of use ?? I hope so and at 56yrs old I find myself running out of time to do the kind of testing of progeny that is needed for healthy working stock, anyone can breed for colour, coat, size, but they must be healthy and of the right temperament and drive for work, decent Plummer must be able to do earthwork as a given, this is a basic quality for any terrier but you are as aware as I am that this is the exception and not the rule,we have already seen some big losses lately to the gene pool of earthdogs by losing "Bramble" and "Brier" to ground at Christmas, these 2 bitches were the only decent small sized registered Plummers of note being worked and they produced some good types, "ACE" gained a reputation quickly but he is producing pups that are "cobby" and larger than himself proving genetically he must of just been an odd small pup in that litter, a stud dog needs to have "prepotency" in order to progress that breed and that means producing replica's of himself like on a production line, typey and of the right size and able to pass on his work ethic, WM

That is heart breaking news about Bramble and Brier and if you speak to him send my regards please wcm,fecking shame that.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Fireman, I'll pass on your regards asap, I am down that way for a lining on a bitch weds/thurs,atb,WM

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

I understand the arguments about breeding terriers for earth work, and keeping the breed moving in the right direction for this.

 

But there seems to be good call for ratting/bushing/shooting dogs, is there any harm in producing terriers aimed towards this?

 

I like terriers, and they way they work cover etc, but don't have any great urge to dig. I know the argument is to get a something with spaniel or beagle in it, but I grew up with a couple of spaniels my dad had and still prefer terriers.

yes tozer usually failed earth dogs find Homes in ratting bushing packs which they turn out useful we dogs, but for someone who wants earth workers it takes as much to feed a gooden as it does a bad

[Tozer 385]

 

I understand the arguments about breeding terriers for earth work, and keeping the breed moving in the right direction for this.

 

But there seems to be good call for ratting/bushing/shooting dogs, is there any harm in producing terriers aimed towards this?

 

I like terriers, and they way they work cover etc, but don't have any great urge to dig. I know the argument is to get a something with spaniel or beagle in it, but I grew up with a couple of spaniels my dad had and still prefer terriers.

yes tozer usually failed earth dogs find Homes in ratting bushing packs which they turn out useful we dogs, but for someone who wants earth workers it takes as much to feed a gooden as it does a bad

 

 

I kind of get it now, I have been reading some information. I must admit I don't know much or anything about this. A terrier to me has always just been another useful little do.

 

I was reading some good book extracts. I suppose with my view point I may as well be looking in the bushing/rough shooting sections.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

C.S. I don't think a baying type terrier can be too small for earthwork,if they try and mix it with a small head then it can be a problem,the size can be a positive in the speed around the earth forcing a nice clean bolt,other's like a bigger dog that will stand toe to toe but thats why there are different strains of the same breed in order to supply those needs,I like a 12"TTS type but I do like them to throw dogs of a similar size to themselves and not bigger,I will still try a mating from "ACE's" son just to see what he throws over this bitch but he is 14"TTS and a strong type,however he is getting plenty of work,sometimes we just have to see what comes out, WM

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This is my bitch that will be lined

i have to say i agree with you. i do like a handy sized terrier. but hate to see them lacking strength./ bone. its always a pleasure to see small terriers with substance.

 

Amber. litter sister to Ace.12 inch tts.

 

.

 

good luck with your next litter. hope they produce what your after. cs