Born Hunter 17,656 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10615466/China-and-Russia-help-global-defence-spending-rise-for-first-time-in-five-years.html The west's appetite for war, conflict and defence expenditure is very low presently with what seems like an eternal recession and a high intensity of conflicts. I've heard it many times, "we don't need a nuclear weapons" "we should get out of all these foreign wars and only use our military for defence of the UK" etc etc. Do we really live in a world where we can safely assume our future and freedom is secure? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Nope.. Nothing lasts forever. nuclear weapons have stopped the massive conflicts and defined borders, you take them out of the equation when resources are getting ever tighter and its a recipe for disaster IMO.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Absolutely not. It would be very naive to assume our freedom is secure. We have to ensure it is, by whatever means necessary. If a nuclear arsenal is the deterrant required to secure that, then so be it. Regarding foreign wars, unless the outcome of the war would directly affect us, we should stay out. (IMO) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,656 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 IMO they all affect us, in subjectively different ways. I guess it's the argument of neoconservatism vs paleoconservatism. Scares the shit out of me cutting our defence budget. We're getting to a very critical point where if we're not carefull our military capability will be severely limited. We need to remain capable of launching operations anywhere in the world with zero assistance to protect all British assets, citizens and soil. Also to remain a credible ally to other western powers and a credible adversary to potential aggressors. We're looking weak and other powers are already making the most of that. It's incredibly naive to believe that the 21st century is any more civilised that the previous 20 IMO. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baw 4,360 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 When was the last time we needed this enormous arsenal born? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,656 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 When was the last time we needed this enormous arsenal born? What specifically? Our entire military? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baw 4,360 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 When was the last time we needed this enormous arsenal born? What specifically? Our entire military? Yea, you can't sleep at night because its getting cut back, so when was the last time we needed it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,656 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yea, you can't sleep at night because its getting cut back, so when was the last time we needed it? Don't be so condescending baw. I can sleep fine. Everyday their is a foreign power with a military and a conflict of interests we need our military. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baw 4,360 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yea, you can't sleep at night because its getting cut back, so when was the last time we needed it? Don't be so condescending baw. I can sleep fine. Everyday their is a foreign power with a military and a conflict of interests we need our military. Sorry my mistake, you sleep fine it's just your scared shitless. I know we need our military but not at the level we have had it. Times have changed. The last wars we have been involved in, it's been us picking a fight. It's only brought danger closer to everyone here. Lets face it, at our strongest, if America, Russia, china decided they wanted us off the planet it would be beeebeeeebeeeeebeeeee that's all folks. Downsizing isn't going to bring any more of a threat to these shores than the recent wars have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 used to be a pro nuclear person.not any more ,empty threat imo no c**t will use one.and yes thats kind hypocritical,cause i do believe one time they did have a purpose.not sold on the idea it still does. we have them to basically keep our place in the security council etc. lets be honest we cant afford them,and im comfortable to admit we are not,and never will be the same great power we once were.i would be happy if they accepted that,and got down to sorting this country out.its people flood defenses etc. maybe we wont be the same powerfull nation,but we could turn this country round if we had a goverment that actually cared. totally with walshie why get involved in a war where the spoils go to the yanks,and private companies.we get a money pit,and a load of maimed soldiers. and westminister dont even do right by them!the yanks dont care about anyone but there own agenda.that special relationship is well gone,maybe distance ourselfs from them,and maybe that target on our backs wouldnt be so bold. anyway we never learn middle east will never be tamed,savages and best left be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,656 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I completely dissagree. Our strongest miltary ally happens to be the greatest military power on the planet presently, we have that relationship almost exlusively through our own capabilities. That is what keeps us safe from potential enemies like Russia and China if WWIII is your consideration. Also our completely independant nuclear deterant is sufficient to keep even a vastly superior convensional military at stalemate with us. Cutting back puts both those key strategies at risk. Other considerations is our capability to launch a rapid reaction force to any type of conflict anywhere in the world to protect UK assets, citizens and soil and to assist our allies in the same. The Falklands comes to mind. We already limit that capability by phasing out certain hardware before the replacement is due. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baw 4,360 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 I completely dissagree. Our strongest miltary ally happens to be the greatest military power on the planet presently, we have that relationship almost exlusively through our own capabilities. That is what keeps us safe from potential enemies like Russia and China if WWIII is your consideration. Also our completely independant nuclear deterant is sufficient to keep even a vastly superior convensional military at stalemate with us. Cutting back puts both those key strategies at risk. Other considerations is our capability to launch a rapid reaction force to any type of conflict anywhere in the world to protect UK assets, citizens and soil and to assist our allies in the same. The Falklands comes to mind. We already limit that capability by phasing out certain hardware before the replacement is due. But there is a replacement right? Do you think countries are thinking, quick, lets ambush Britian while they are weak lol. As for our allies, friends and foe will be decided on how much trade you can do. No pointing in investing in bombs to lie in a shed while countries around invest in their economy while ours goes down the swanny. The pen is mightier than the sword, ask India. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 used to be a pro nuclear person.not any more ,empty threat imo no c**t will use one.and yes thats kind hypocritical,cause i do believe one time they did have a purpose.not sold on the idea it still does. we have them to basically keep our place in the security council etc. lets be honest we cant afford them,and im comfortable to admit we are not,and never will be the same great power we once were.i would be happy if they accepted that,and got down to sorting this country out.its people flood defenses etc. maybe we wont be the same powerfull nation,but we could turn this country round if we had a goverment that actually cared. totally with walshie why get involved in a war where the spoils go to the yanks,and private companies.we get a money pit,and a load of maimed soldiers. and westminister dont even do right by them!the yanks dont care about anyone but there own agenda.that special relationship is well gone,maybe distance ourselfs from them,and maybe that target on our backs wouldnt be so bold. anyway we never learn middle east will never be tamed,savages and best left be. I think they do still a purpose mate. Look at Pakistan, they are nuclear armed and if the real nasty factions there ever get into power and get their fingers on the button it wouldn't bear thinking about. The only way disarmament will work is if everyone gives theirs up and it ain't going to happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 aye kinda thought you would disagree mate lol 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 used to be a pro nuclear person.not any more ,empty threat imo no c**t will use one.and yes thats kind hypocritical,cause i do believe one time they did have a purpose.not sold on the idea it still does. we have them to basically keep our place in the security council etc. lets be honest we cant afford them,and im comfortable to admit we are not,and never will be the same great power we once were.i would be happy if they accepted that,and got down to sorting this country out.its people flood defenses etc. maybe we wont be the same powerfull nation,but we could turn this country round if we had a goverment that actually cared. totally with walshie why get involved in a war where the spoils go to the yanks,and private companies.we get a money pit,and a load of maimed soldiers. and westminister dont even do right by them!the yanks dont care about anyone but there own agenda.that special relationship is well gone,maybe distance ourselfs from them,and maybe that target on our backs wouldnt be so bold. anyway we never learn middle east will never be tamed,savages and best left be. I think they do still a purpose mate. Look at Pakistan, they are nuclear armed and if the real nasty factions there ever get into power and get their fingers on the button it wouldn't bear thinking about. The only way disarmament will work is if everyone gives theirs up and it ain't going to happen. If we know thats a strong possibility,im sure they have compensated for that. not saying im right i just think we need to seriously look at ourselfs,and say do we really need to be up there in every world issue or conflict. and we really cant afford these weapons anymore, other nations have done well some extremely well and werent involved in recent wars. nor do they have a nuclear arsenal. f**k if it happens and imo it wont this attitude well im f****d but ive f****d them. does it matter,we will all be f****d lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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