Is This How Wolves Ended Up As Dogs?

[Malt 379]

Are you saying a dog goes against it's natural behaviour when hunting? Even breeds like spaniels and other gundogs which refrain from making a kill have their equivalents in a wolf pack where each wolf has a set job that it does on each hunt.

[Casso 1,264]

Are you saying a dog goes against it's natural behaviour when hunting? Even breeds like spaniels and other gundogs which refrain from making a kill have their equivalents in a wolf pack where each wolf has a set job that it does on each hunt.

 

Hunting is the only behaviour which makes any reality to the dog , gun dogs will forsake the kill for the hunt ,the same as the rest the drive to hunt is by far the biggest compulsion in its life, same as the sheep dog it lives to work , nothing else, it's in drive it feels free , it has a three way connection with the most important elements in its life , handler and sheep, all in the same driven bubble , life doesn't get any better than that for a working sheepdog , it has forsaken the instinctive behaviours of it's canine past because it can now feel what we feel , its no longer about the kill or feeding it's about the connection and its through the wolf it can do so

[Malt 379]

..but it hasn't forsaken the instincts of it's canine past, it uses them to do it's job.. The way it herds sheep is no different from the way certain individual wolves try to control the direction of a prey animal during the hunt. Not all wolves go in for the kill.

 

 

 

The splendour of the hunting pack is the integration of individual prowess. Fast dogs curve in long encircling arcs, strong dogs fling themselves at flailing hooves, skilled dogs dash for the nose hold.. The Velvet Claw 1992

 

It's plain to see from that how we have managed to get to where we are with so many different breeds from one species of animal. For example: For the fast dogs mentioned in the extract, read sighthound/herding breeds. For the strong dogs, read alunts and other molassers. For the specialist, read the fighting breeds. All have their wild equivalents somewhere in the wild wolf packs that still work in the same way today..

[Casso 1,264]

..but it hasn't forsaken the instincts of it's canine past, it uses them to do it's job.. The way it herds sheep is no different from the way certain individual wolves try to control the direction of a prey animal during the hunt. Not all wolves go in for the kill.

 

 

The splendour of the hunting pack is the integration of individual prowess. Fast dogs curve in long encircling arcs, strong dogs fling themselves at flailing hooves, skilled dogs dash for the nose hold.. The Velvet Claw 1992

It's plain to see from that how we have managed to get to where we are with so many different breeds from one species of animal. For example: For the fast dogs mentioned in the extract, read sighthound/herding breeds. For the strong dogs, read alunts and other molassers. For the specialist, read the fighting breeds. All have their wild equivalents somewhere in the wild wolf packs that still work in the same way today..

I'm not sure what point your making now Malt , you seem to be an advocate for the wolf now, which is what I'm saying , we cannot replicate what we have got from the wolf , not the fox not the cat and not even the chimp and it's not because a dog is any more intelligent it's because it goes by how it feels inside , something our ancestors at one time lived by and that was by way of Gut feeling or gut reactions,

For a dog to be able to resist its most primal urge to bite speaks volumes about how much the connection to the handler means to the sheepdog , instinctive canine behaviour subdued in order to keep itself social with the one who instigates it's form of the hunt

[unlacedgecko 1,467]

The worst sheep killers are often collies gone rougue.

[Malt 379]

 

..but it hasn't forsaken the instincts of it's canine past, it uses them to do it's job.. The way it herds sheep is no different from the way certain individual wolves try to control the direction of a prey animal during the hunt. Not all wolves go in for the kill.

 

The splendour of the hunting pack is the integration of individual prowess. Fast dogs curve in long encircling arcs, strong dogs fling themselves at flailing hooves, skilled dogs dash for the nose hold.. The Velvet Claw 1992

It's plain to see from that how we have managed to get to where we are with so many different breeds from one species of animal. For example: For the fast dogs mentioned in the extract, read sighthound/herding breeds. For the strong dogs, read alunts and other molassers. For the specialist, read the fighting breeds. All have their wild equivalents somewhere in the wild wolf packs that still work in the same way today..

I'm not sure what point your making now Malt , you seem to be an advocate for the wolf now, which is what I'm saying , we cannot replicate what we have got from the wolf , not the fox not the cat and not even the chimp and it's not because a dog is any more intelligent it's because it goes by how it feels inside , something our ancestors at one time lived by and that was by way of Gut feeling or gut reactions,

For a dog to be able to resist its most primal urge to bite speaks volumes about how much the connection to the handler means to the sheepdog , instinctive canine behaviour subdued in order to keep itself social with the one who instigates it's form of the hunt

 

The whole thread was about the initial domestication of the wolf, it was you who brought the modern dog breeds into it. They breeds we have now are thousands of years away from the wild animals that chose be around humans and have very little to do with the original theme. You stated that our dogs have forsaken the canine instincts of the past and I'm saying they haven't because the behaviours that wolves display in the wild while hunting are still very much there in evidence the breeds of dogs we all know and love today.

 

..and sheepdogs/cattle dogs do nip, bite and harry the sheep/cows they are working in the same way that an out riding wolf would do to a large prey animal.. That they don't go any further is down to conditioning on the part of their handlers..

 

Anyway, it's been a good debate!

[DannyMc 143]

Enjoyed that Malt and Casso,nice to see a reasoned debate and come away feeling that I got something outta it.

[Casso 1,264]

 

 

..but it hasn't forsaken the instincts of it's canine past, it uses them to do it's job.. The way it herds sheep is no different from the way certain individual wolves try to control the direction of a prey animal during the hunt. Not all wolves go in for the kill.

The splendour of the hunting pack is the integration of individual prowess. Fast dogs curve in long encircling arcs, strong dogs fling themselves at flailing hooves, skilled dogs dash for the nose hold.. The Velvet Claw 1992

It's plain to see from that how we have managed to get to where we are with so many different breeds from one species of animal. For example: For the fast dogs mentioned in the extract, read sighthound/herding breeds. For the strong dogs, read alunts and other molassers. For the specialist, read the fighting breeds. All have their wild equivalents somewhere in the wild wolf packs that still work in the same way today..

I'm not sure what point your making now Malt , you seem to be an advocate for the wolf now, which is what I'm saying , we cannot replicate what we have got from the wolf , not the fox not the cat and not even the chimp and it's not because a dog is any more intelligent it's because it goes by how it feels inside , something our ancestors at one time lived by and that was by way of Gut feeling or gut reactions,For a dog to be able to resist its most primal urge to bite speaks volumes about how much the connection to the handler means to the sheepdog , instinctive canine behaviour subdued in order to keep itself social with the one who instigates it's form of the hunt

The whole thread was about the initial domestication of the wolf, it was you who brought the modern dog breeds into it. They breeds we have now are thousands of years away from the wild animals that chose be around humans and have very little to do with the original theme. You stated that our dogs have forsaken the canine instincts of the past and I'm saying they haven't because the behaviours that wolves display in the wild while hunting are still very much there in evidence the breeds of dogs we all know and love today. ..and sheepdogs/cattle dogs do nip, bite and harry the sheep/cows they are working in the same way that an out riding wolf would do to a large prey animal.. That they don't go any further is down to conditioning on the part of their handlers.. Anyway, it's been a good debate!

 

Some breeds for sure have subdued the urge to bite and kill just to work in accordance to man wishes that evident to see,

 

Breeds of dog today are not that far their original ancestors , all they are , are slices of behavior taken from the original animal , small element of the hunt contained in individual dogs ,

 

Elements taken from the wolfs hunting style , scenting , freezing , stalking , chasing , and killing , they are all principle elements of varies dog hunting styles from the bloodhound down to the bulldog

 

Best of luck Malt , nice rubbing heads with ya bud , if ya do breed a service fox put me down for one , take care

[Malt 379]

[Huan72 687]

Excellent topic who said THL was all about naked ladies and threatening to beat people up at game fairs I think with dogs and humans it comes down to resources, that could be anything right from food, through to comfort, confidence and leadership. We have a lot in common with dogs, were animals after all whilst the resource is about and there is no threat to it, no problem. If the resource is threatened, i.e a lack of food, or a threat to the resource of home, comfort and security then a decision needs to be made, is that resource worth defending or is it better to walk away and survive another day. We have the same motivations as dogs, we require food, security and companionship and our thought processes in securing resources will be remarkably similar. It explains why the most easy going dog, secure with its owner and confident in the owners ability to provide can become the fiercest of animals defending home or human, its due to the dogs decision to guard that resource with his/her life if necessary. I think we love our dogs as we do because in them we see the honesty and integrity that seems to be lacking in the man made world around us Saw a video once of an EBT, calm as anything normally, would not let anyone near his recently deceased owner. The integrity of that dog and knowing how much he must have valued his owner, really did make my eyes water. I bloody love dogs

[mushroom 14,162]

Casso, Malt said you wear womens clothing and touch yourself in the mirror to the music of Q Lazzarus whilst asking the question would you f**k me :laugh:

 

Bang out if you ask me :laugh:

[Malt 379]

FFS Kie, you on the cerveza or what?

[mushroom 14,162]

FFS Kie, you on the cerveza or what?

I feckin wish :laugh:

[Malt 379]

 

FFS Kie, you on the cerveza or what?

I feckin wish :laugh:

 

Lack of it then?

[Casso 1,264]

Casso, Malt said you wear womens clothing and touch yourself in the mirror to the music of Q Lazzarus whilst asking the question would you f**k me :laugh:

 

Bang out if you ask me :laugh:

He's right , Mods know and see all , there's nowhere safe anymore ,