17 Winchester Super Magnum

[Craig83 52]

Let me just summarise then.

 

I have .17 HMR and .22RF on my ticket.

I have permission on 3 pieces of land. All of which have deer stalking and fox calibre's on.

 

If I was to put in a variation for say a .17 hornet, .22 hornet, similar .22 calibre's or infact .17 WSM would I need a new letter from my land owners for a fox calibre round?

[Deker 3,453]

If all the land is actually cleared for deer calibres (that may be .22 cf), in the normal course of events you do not need any additional permission and should not have any problem with your region going to a WSM or Hornet...or bigger..

 

But apparently you have a calibre specific permission from a farmer, that being the case and the fact you are with Wilts........ who knows? Like I said earlier, Wilts have their moments and if this little gem is anything to go by they have not been helpful to you!

[Craig83 52]

What about the further permissions when a calibre hadn't been specified. And iv just been cleared to shoot there?

[Deker 3,453]

What about the further permissions when a calibre hadn't been specified. And iv just been cleared to shoot there?

This seems to be getting much deeper than it need be (from what I can see due to Wilts advice to get a permission letter with a Calibre on it), if the other land is cleared for deer calibres, 22cf or bigger and you have authority to shoot on the land I see no reason why Wilts want another permission letter from you?

 

I think perhaps you need a word in their shell like and ask them why they appear to want another permission letter when apparently you already have authority on land cleared for bigger calibres.

 

Note to self, go out of your way to avoid a permission letter that states ANY specific calibre use, it is not required and is simply Wilts throwing a spanner into the works!

Edited December 14, 2013 by Deker

[Alsone 789]

This is a permission slip I drew up for my own personal use based on several different ones posted on here and with the wording subtly changed.

 

eg The shooter SHOULD have relevant insurance instead of MUST (reason - if it says "must" your permission is potentially invalid if you accidentally let your insurance lapse and that leaves you open to an armed trespass charge).

 

You might want to consider it.

 

However, in putting it up I do so as guidance only. Its up to you to take advice as to whether or not its suitable / fit for purpose and thus I disclaim any liability in the event that it is not suitable or any problems that arise as a result of using it. The onus is on you to check suitability / take legal advice BEFORE use:

 

 

AUTHORITY TO SHOOT

 

I (name)………………………… of (farm) ………………………………………

In my capacity as, Landowner, Tenant, Estate Manager, Game Keeper (delete)

Address …………………………….……………
……………………………………................……
……………………………........,,......……………
………………………………................…………
Postcode …………………………………………

Telephone No ………………………………. Mobile No …………………………

Hereby Authorize, .................................................

of .............…………………………………………
….................………………………………………
………….................………………………………
Postcode ………………….………………………

to control Vermin, Corvids, Deer, Fox and Game, using any legal method including, shotguns and rifles on land owned by me.

Relevant liability insurance (S.A.C.S or Similar) should be held by all parties.

1. Additional shooters are permitted but ONLY when accompanied by the above named
Person or instructed by same.

2. Lamping / Shooting after Dark permitted/not permitted.

3. This authority remains in force until terminated by myself or appointed agent in Writing using Registered Post.

4. This authority does/does not offer sole shooting rights to the land described above.


Signed ………………………………………Print ………………………………………
Dated ………………………………………

Edited December 15, 2013 by Alsone

[Craig83 52]

Thanks for that Alonso. I like it.

[RiverRomper 15]

Have seen these rounds and the Savage rifle that shoots them. People that get them buy several boxes at a time.(of ammo). The caliber has not been really established over here.

The .17"WSM was brought to market for the elimination of coyotes, ground squirrels, and other larger vermin. Have no interest in the caliber myself.

Peace, hope this helps,

RiverRomper

[Deker 3,453]

Have seen these rounds and the Savage rifle that shoots them. People that get them buy several boxes at a time.(of ammo). The caliber has not been really established over here.

The .17"WSM was brought to market for the elimination of coyotes, ground squirrels, and other larger vermin. Have no interest in the caliber myself.

Peace, hope this helps,

RiverRomper

It is early days yet for this round but doesn't seem to be taking the world by storm, manufacturers are cautiously sitting on the fence (see CZ above #28 who have no plans to consider making 17WSM for 15 months).

 

Perhaps it will work, perhaps it will not, perhaps it will be another 17Mk2, a solution to a problem nobody has. :hmm:

 

Edited December 15, 2013 by Deker

[Craig83 52]

Hmmm I don't know, iv just done some ballistic bashing (yes I'm sad) looks like a 4 in hold over at 180 yards, it's got the lefs

[Craig83 52]

Sorry my bad maths , 200 yards is 4 in hold over

[Alsone 789]

Thanks for that Alonso. I like it.

 

You're welcome but it's not mine. It's a combination of several on here.

 

Actually the more I think about it the more sense there is in altering the termination wording to:

 

"This authority remains in force until terminated by myself or appointed agent by giving 7 days notice in Writing using Registered Post" (words in italics only to highlight the change).

 

I don't know what others think here as to whether or not this would be acceptable to landowners but the danger I see is that without the above, what happens if the post arrives one day and you don't get chance to read it and go out shooting eg the following AM or if you put it on the table with other letters to read later and it slips off and doesn't get found until you clean up several days later? You're permission is withdrawn from the date of receipt so again its armed trespass, poaching, etc.

 

Adding a 7 day notice period gives you several days grace in the event that for some reason you don't open the post immediately or misplace it, and go shooting before getting chance to read the revocation.

 

Sorry my bad maths , 200 yards is 4 in hold over

 

This is one of the kickers of this calibre. Its very flat shooting - betters .22 Hornet, down range has very similar energies to the Hornet as it retains energy very well and suffers very little wind drift. This makes it an excellent long range calibre for small game whilst retaining cheap ammo costs. In the video I posted above, the guy shot a ground squirrel cleanly at 264 yards. Try that with a .22LR or HMR.

[Deker 3,453]

 

Thanks for that Alonso. I like it.

You're welcome but it's not mine. It's a combination of several on here.

 

Actually the more I think about it the more sense there is in altering the termination wording to:

 

"This authority remains in force until terminated by myself or appointed agent by giving 7 days notice in Writing using Registered Post" (words in italics only to highlight the change).

 

I don't know what others think here as to whether or not this would be acceptable to landowners but the danger I see is that without the above, what happens if the post arrives one day and you don't get chance to read it and go out shooting eg the following AM or if you put it on the table with other letters to read later and it slips off and doesn't get found until you clean up several days later? You're permission is withdrawn from the date of receipt so again its armed trespass, poaching, etc.

 

Adding a 7 day notice period gives you several days grace in the event that for some reason you don't open the post immediately or misplace it, and go shooting before getting chance to read the revocation.

 

Sorry my bad maths , 200 yards is 4 in hold over

This is one of the kickers of this calibre. Its very flat shooting - betters .22 Hornet, down range has very similar energies to the Hornet as it retains energy very well and suffers very little wind drift. This makes it an excellent long range calibre for small game whilst retaining cheap ammo costs. In the video I posted above, the guy shot a ground squirrel cleanly at 264 yards. Try that with a .22LR or HMR.

 

You are getting to complicated and thinking too much about the permission. Keep it simple, why is there any mention of termination at all?

 

As for distance, nobody in their right mind will buy a 17WSM for shooting squirrels 264 yards away, and I did a rabbit 258 with my HMR. These are one off shots in special circumstances, I have used my HMR at 600 yards at Bisley, so why bother with a WSM at all on that basis!

[danw 1,748]

 

This is a permission slip I drew up for my own personal use based on several different ones posted on here and with the wording subtly changed.

 

eg The shooter SHOULD have relevant insurance instead of MUST (reason - if it says "must" your permission is potentially invalid if you accidentally let your insurance lapse and that leaves you open to an armed trespass charge).

 

You might want to consider it.

 

However, in putting it up I do so as guidance only. Its up to you to take advice as to whether or not its suitable / fit for purpose and thus I disclaim any liability in the event that it is not suitable or any problems that arise as a result of using it. The onus is on you to check suitability / take legal advice BEFORE use:

 

 

AUTHORITY TO SHOOT

 

I (name)………………………… of (farm) ………………………………………

 

In my capacity as, Landowner, Tenant, Estate Manager, Game Keeper (delete)

 

Address …………………………….……………

……………………………………................……

……………………………........,,......……………

………………………………................…………

Postcode …………………………………………

 

Telephone No ………………………………. Mobile No …………………………

 

Hereby Authorize, .................................................

of .............…………………………………………

….................………………………………………

………….................………………………………

Postcode ………………….………………………

to control Vermin, Corvids, Deer, Fox and Game, using any legal method including, shotguns and rifles on land owned by me.

 

Relevant liability insurance (S.A.C.S or Similar) should be held by all parties.

 

1. Additional shooters are permitted but ONLY when accompanied by the above named

Person or instructed by same.

 

2. Lamping / Shooting after Dark permitted/not permitted.

 

3. This authority remains in force until terminated by myself or appointed agent in Writing using Registered Post.

 

4. This authority does/does not offer sole shooting rights to the land described above.

 

 

Signed ………………………………………Print ………………………………………

Dated ………………………………………

 

perhaps being pedantic but neither the tenant,gamekeeper nor farm manager are the land owner and are unlikely to hold the shooting rights IF i needed permission slips as above I would want the landowners (or holder of the shooting rights) permission in writing I would be very careful about accepting permission from someone who only acts as an agent and in all reality probably cannot lawfully grant permission.

[Alsone 789]

 

You are getting to complicated and thinking too much about the permission. Keep it simple, why is there any mention of termination at all?

 

As for distance, nobody in their right mind will buy a 17WSM for shooting squirrels 264 yards away, and I did a rabbit 258 with my HMR. These are one off shots in special circumstances, I have used my HMR at 600 yards at Bisley, so why bother with a WSM at all on that basis!

 

 

I think the point with termination is provide certainty. Other wise if you got stopped by the police, the landowner could say I saw you last night and told you I'd terminated the permission. I think the point in specifying it to be in writing and by registered post is to prevent exactly that type of situation occuring as the terminations isn't valid unless its in writing and has been sent by registered post. My point in adding 7 days notice is to strenghten that further and reduce any possibility of it being withdrawn without you having read the delivered notice.

 

As for shooting vermin at 264 yards, why ever not? Bullet drops only 4 inches and energy is still almost 200ft pounds, thats 50ft lbs more than .22 LR HV at the muzzle.

[Deker 3,453]

 

You are getting to complicated and thinking too much about the permission. Keep it simple, why is there any mention of termination at all?

 

As for distance, nobody in their right mind will buy a 17WSM for shooting squirrels 264 yards away, and I did a rabbit 258 with my HMR. These are one off shots in special circumstances, I have used my HMR at 600 yards at Bisley, so why bother with a WSM at all on that basis!

I think the point with termination is provide certainty. Other wise if you got stopped by the police, the landowner could say I saw you last night and told you I'd terminated the permission. I think the point in specifying it to be in writing and by registered post is to prevent exactly that type of situation occuring as the terminations isn't valid unless its in writing and has been sent by registered post. My point in adding 7 days notice is to strenghten that further and reduce any possibility of it being withdrawn without you having read the delivered notice. Like I said, you are thinking too much and over complicating things!

As for shooting vermin I said squirrel as in your example at 264 yards, why ever not? Bullet drops only 4 inches and energy is still almost 200ft pounds, With what ammo and at what zero point thats 50ft lbs more than .22 LR HV at the muzzle. Shooting Squirrels at 264 yards is not a daily usage for any rimfire, these are one off shots, it isn't a pissing contest, it's about getting the job done, if that is what you want out of a rifle you buy something better suited, and by way of silliness, like I said ...."I have used my HMR at 600 yards at Bisley, so why bother with a WSM at all on that basis? :hmm:

 

Edited December 16, 2013 by Deker