Protein

[robadoo 212]

Ok lads , I feed twice a day , complete kibble in the mornings and raw for their main meal in the evening . Now you hear all different views on the amount of protein that people feed , some say don't feed raw and complete , some use a low protein kibble combination , some a high . Now I know it depends on the dogs workload how much protein they need for recovery , but is it damaging to feed to much protein , is there any health or performance differences when a dog is getting to much ? If the dog is looking slightly under , do you increase the protein content or just the bulk ? . I think if the dogs look in good condition , then I stick with the same diet , but people seem to be obsessed with the protein content in stuff . What's your views?

[paulus 26]

Ok lads , I feed twice a day , complete kibble in the mornings and raw for their main meal in the evening . Now you hear all different views on the amount of protein that people feed , some say don't feed raw and complete , some use a low protein kibble combination , some a high . Now I know it depends on the dogs workload how much protein they need for recovery , but is it damaging to feed to much protein , is there any health or performance differences when a dog is getting to much ? If the dog is looking slightly under , do you increase the protein content or just the bulk ? . I think if the dogs look in good condition , then I stick with the same diet , but people seem to be obsessed with the protein content in stuff . What's your views?

it is possible that too much protein can cause hyperactivity in some dogs if it is not equaled out with exercise. in the off season i feed a 50/50 mix of pasta and raw stepping up to 75% raw in season. if the dog starts to loose condition and theres no medical reason then i up the fat content via cheap fatty beef products. the requirements of each dog will be different down to varying factors such as age etc. so there is no definitive one answer fits all thing. just look at the dog and decide accordingly.

[The one 8,401]

If your feeding high protein grub and the dogs no working it off i think you just pick it up on a shovel so i try to increase the protien level with the work load

[ian 1 36]

there,s two types of protein ,the protein in raw is ok, the protein in say a bag of dog food that is made with gluton and wheaton can be harmfull to dogs

[sandymere 8,261]

there,s two types of protein ,the protein in raw is ok, the protein in say a bag of dog food that is made with gluton and wheaton can be harmfull to dogs

How is it harmful???

[paulus 26]

 

there,s two types of protein ,the protein in raw is ok, the protein in say a bag of dog food that is made with gluton and wheaton can be harmfull to dogs

How is it harmful???

 

allergic to winalot

[sandymere 8,261]

Performance dog feeding
Arleigh Reynolds, DVM, PhD, DACVN
Jill Cline, PhD

Most veterinarians have clients that participate with their dog in various sports or activities, and they may seek information on how to feed their active dogs appropriately. This article provides practical advice for the feeding of active dogs, whether pulling a sled in Minnesota, chasing Frisbees in California, or chasing fox in Virginia.

Exercise intensity
The majority of performance dog nutrition research has been conducted using either endurance sled dogs or greyhounds as models. However, most performance dogs are neither. Instead, they are hunting dogs, service dogs, and working dogs that participate in a wide range of physical activities. Table 1 lists different canine athletic activities and their level of intensity. Exercise intensity is usually discussed in terms of VO2 or workload. VO2 is a measure of oxygen consumption that indicates workload or exercise intensity and VO2 max is the amount of oxygen consumed when exercising at maximum intensity1. Since VO2 max can be increased by conditioning, references to VO2 max throughout this article refer to a fully conditioned dog.

Exercise can be loosely divided into three categories based on VO2 max. High intensity exercise is greater than 75% VO2 max and uses anaerobic fuel sources, primarily phosphocreatine, muscle glycogen and carbohydrates. Moderate intensity exercise occurs between 30-50% VO2 max and is primarily aerobic in nature, including the aerobic metabolism of both carbohydrates and free fatty acids (FFA), and small amounts of protein. Finally, low intensity exercise is exercise up to 30% VO2 max and is completely aerobic in nature, utilizing primarily free fatty acids for fuel1.

Endurance Canine Athletes
Table 2 summarizes the feeding recommendations for canine endurance athletes. Canine endurance athletes, like sled dogs, typically exercise for an extended time period in the low intensity (up to 30% VO2 max) and moderate intensity (30-50% VO2 max) range with very short bouts of high intensity going up a hill or at the finish of a race. Therefore, the primary fuel for canine endurance athletes is free fatty acids. Dogs are more efficient at metabolism fat than most other species2. Further, through a combination of training and diet, there can be an increase in the amount of circulating FFA available for use as an energy substrate1. Muscle FFA can contribute up to 60% of energy during the first 2-3 hours of exercise 3.

An appropriate feeding regime for endurance sled dogs includes approximately 35% of calories from protein, 45% calories from fat and 20% of calories from carbohydrates. However, these are estimates and all dogs should be fed to maintain appropriate body condition for the sport in which they are participating. Sled dogs exercising at low to moderate intensity with short bouts of high intensity work need a minimum of 24% of calories from protein in the diet to prevent soft tissue injury4. Dogs fed 16% protein, as a percent of calories, had more soft tissue injuries, which required that they be removed from the exercise rotation for at least three days4.

Canine endurance athletes have a tremendous requirement for energy. Working sled dogs calorie requirements can range up to 6,000-10,000 kilocalories/day depending on environmental condition, exercise intensity and duration1. Daily energy requirements are usually greater than 5X resting energy rate. High dietary energy density is key to these canine athletes. Since fat has about 2.25 times more energy than either protein or carbohydrate per gram, high fat diets help meet the energy needs of canine endurance athletes. Small amounts of dietary carbohydrate are useful in stabilizing gut motility in endurance canine athletes. Sled dogs fed diets without carbohydrate were more susceptible to “stress” diarrhea than those that had 17 % carbohydrate in their diets5.

Long distance endurance events cause an increase in lipid peroxidation and free radical production. The extremely high fat diets required by endurance sled dogs can exacerbate this phenomena so increased antioxidants like vitamin E and selenium have been recommended to help minimize the effects of free radicals1.

Sprint/ Weight Pulling Canine Athletes
Dogs involved in sprinting and weight pulling activities such as sight hound racing or sledge pulling competitions undergo short periods of very intense exercise. These types of dogs typically do not have higher energy requirements than those of moderately active pet dogs. A greyhound expends approximately 75 kcal per race6. The energy required for these types of activities is solely anaerobic and comes from the muscle energy stores. Most canine athletes engaged in sprint type activities have an energy requirement of 1.6-2 X resting energy rate1. An appropriate feeding regime for sprint type canine athletes consists of a diet that contains approximately 25% calories from protein, 30% calories from fat and 45% calories from carbohydrates (Table 2).

Greyhounds can deplete up to 70% of their muscle glycogen during a race7. However, it seems that “carb loading” as described for humans does not benefit these canine athletes8. Hill et al demonstrated that greyhounds ran faster when carbohydrate was increased from 30 to 45% ME at the expense of protein but they ran slower when fed 54% carbohydrates at the expense of protein and fat9.

While vitamins E and C provide protection against oxidative damage, they do not appear to enhance racing performance. On the contrary, super-supplementation with these antioxidant vitamins actually slowed greyhounds10. However, many racing dogs are fed raw meat or fish in addition to a complete and balanced dog food. Raw meats and fish, which can be high in PUFA, are susceptible to oxidation. Therefore, the amount of vitamin E included in the diet should be proportional to the fat levels in the diet11.

Intermediate Canine Athletes
Most canine athletes fall into the nebulous category of “intermediate” exercise intensity. Some dogs are “weekend warriors” for example, the family retriever who does double duty as the duck retrieving dog on the weekend. These dogs exercise hard, and sometimes for many hours on the weekends but do not exercise during the week. Other canine athletes exercise more regularly like military or service dogs.

Table 1 list a few of the activities in which dogs may participate. There may be short bursts of intense activity, like running up a hill or sprinting after a bird in the case of a hunting dog or completing an agility course, but the majority of intermediate canine athletes exercise at an intensity well below 75% VO2 max. Therefore, the exercise of these intermediate athletes more closely resembles endurance exercise rather than sprint exercise.

A recent survey of fox hound hunting clubs reported that formal hunts last from 2-6 hours and the average distance covered was between 8-10 miles but could range up to 20 miles 12. Intermediate athletes can be subdivided into two categories- those who exercise at a low-moderate frequency and duration and those who exercise at a higher duration and frequency. Table 2 details nutrient requirements for intermediate canine athletes. In general, canine intermediate athletes require at least 25% of calories as protein. Protein requirements increase in relation to increased work1. Exercise causes an increased need for structural proteins (muscle, collagen) and functional proteins (enzymes) 1. As exercise frequency increases through continued work or training, the enzymes for energy metabolism are up-regulated, requiring more protein13. In addition, blood volume increases with continued aerobic exercise and there is a concomitant increase in plasma volume that requires additional protein14. Thus there is an enhanced rate of protein synthesis associated with regular exercise. There is also an enhanced rate of protein catabolism. Branch chain amino acids, leucine, isoleucine and valine, are oxidized for energy, contributing between 5-15% of the energy used during aerobic exercise15. Since there are no labile stores of protein in the body, essential amino acids must be replaced through diet.

Physical activity necessitates an increase in metabolism, which in turn increases the need for energy. Fat is the most energy dense nutrient available to fulfill this need. Training in conjunction with higher fat diets has been shown to increase a dog’s capacity for using FFA by raising a dog’s carbohydrate threshold1. The carbohydrate threshold is the point at which dogs switch from aerobic FFA metabolism to aerobic carbohydrate metabolism. During moderately intense work, both FFA and carbohydrates are metabolized for energy. Feeding a high fat diet during training causes a shift in metabolism that elevates the threshold at which dog’s switch from FFA metabolism to carbohydrate metabolism. The advantage to this change is twofold. Fats have more energy per gram so each gram oxidized nets more fuel for exercise than carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are available in very limited supply in the body therefore sparing them is beneficial. Also, by feeding a higher fat diet during regular exercise, the amount of circulating FFA increases, providing a readily available energy source. Working dogs consuming higher fat diets respond to an exercise bout by releasing more FFA than dogs fed an isocaloric diet of lower fat content14. Finally, increased fat in a balanced diet has been shown to increase the maximal rate of fat oxidation by 20-30 % in dogs exercised at a moderate intensity (less than 75% VO2 max) which leads to an increased oxidative capacity16.

On the other hand, canine athletes in this category also may have short periods of more intense activity, requiring them to utilize muscle glycogen for energy. Appropriate feeding of carbohydrates can aid in maintaining and restoring muscle glycogen, as described elsewhere in this issue.

Like endurance dogs, intermediate canine athletes are susceptible to lipid peroxidation of membranes. Diets with extra antioxidants like vitamins E and C, and selenium would help to minimize excessive free radical production especially when dogs are consuming higher fat diets 13.

Practical Feeding Management of Intermediate Canine Athletes
As important as the nutrients to canine athletes are the feeding practices that are used to manage the delivery of those nutrients. Three things need to be considered when managing food intake in canine athletes- diet digestibility, hydration and feeding time.

Intermediate canine athletes can vary in energy requirements depending on the sport in which they are participating, the environmental conditions and the frequency of exercise. However, diet digestibility should be at least % in order for the dogs to effectively metabolize and use the nutrients supplied by the food without excess fecal bulk and for them to be able to ingest enough calories to meet energy needs while in training and competing in athletic events1. The more energy dense the food is, the less voluminous the stool, which is advantageous in exercising dogs. Kronfeld et al estimated that racing sled dogs with full colons were handicapped equivalent to a jockey and racehorse being assessed a 20 lb handicap5.

Hydration is important in exercising dogs for two reasons. Exercise is a heat producing activity and water is required to help dissipate heat. Work by Young demonstrated that about 60% of heat dissipated by dogs during exercise is through water evaporation in the respiratory tract17. Also, water is needed to remove the by-products of energy metabolism. It is very important to keep exercising dogs hydrated because this may be the most important determinant of endurance and performance1. Yet, in many cases, exercising dogs may be distracted by their task or the environment so are not motivated to drink. Specific care should be provided to encourage dogs to drink during extended periods of exercise. . Unlike humans, most dogs do not loose electrolytes during exercise because sweat is not a primary avenue for thermoregulation for dogs. Because most healthy dogs do not lose electrolytes, they do not benefit from electrolyte replacement drinks.

Finally, timing of meals is important in canine athletes. Exercise alters gastrointestinal transit time and therefore can change nutrient digestion and absorption18. Exercise also can cause mild hypoxia in the gut due to redistribution of blood flow1. In addition, the heat of digestion can increase heat load in exercising dogs that are already at risk for excessive heat production. Dogs fed 4 hours before exercise had higher core temperatures than those fed 17 hours before exercising. This difference was attributed to the heat of digestion19. Approximately 23 hours are required for the complete digestion of a large meal in a dog18. Dogs fed less than 23 hours before an exercise event may have fecal matter in the colon which can compromise performance by adding extra weigh to the dog. Some researchers and dog enthusiasts theorize that feces in the colon can also cause cecal slap1. Cecal slap is a condition during which the residual feces “slaps” against the colon causing irritation of the surrounding epithelium and perhaps inducing diarrhea during and after exercise. It is recommended that intensely exercising dogs be fed approximately 24 hours before an intense exercise bout to help alleviate problems associated with a full colon. If the sporting activity in which they are participating is a multiple day event, then dogs should be fed as soon after exercise as possible so that they have the maximum amount of time to digest the meal before the next exercise bout. It is appropriate to feed a dog only when it is no longer panting or exhibiting signs of heat stress or dehydration. Most dogs can be fed within 45 minutes of cessation of exercise.

Summary
In summary, athletic dogs generally require more energy, protein and antioxidants than sedentary dogs. The extra nutrients required are directly related to the exercise intensity, frequency and duration. Most dogs that participate in canine athletic events are considered intermediate athletes who use a combination of aerobic and anaerobic fuels. Though most of the research on the nutrient requirements of exercising dogs has been completed using either greyhounds or sled dogs, recommendations can still be drawn from this work and applied to intermediate canine athletes. Feeding management practices, including diet digestibility, hydration, and timing of feeding, are vitally important to canine athletes and can directly affect canine athletic performance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2013 by sandymere

[robadoo 212]

Interesting stuff , thanks for putting that up sandy . And thanks for replies lads . I think as long as your maintaining the condition of the dog for the job in hand then it's all good . It's interesting that lurcher work is leaning more towards a endurance athlete than a sprint athlete , and requires a lot more energy from fats , and most people use a greyhound complete food . It's also interesting about electrolytes that dogs don't lose them , and therefore replacement is not needed .

[sandymere 8,261]

Bare in mind that dogs do use their glucose/glycogen stores quickly and a glucose drink will often help, most electrolytes contain glucose so many use it thinking the good recovery is down to the electrolyte when in reality its usually a bit of wishful thinking along with a glucose boost.

[sandymere 8,261]

 

 

there,s two types of protein ,the protein in raw is ok, the protein in say a bag of dog food that is made with gluton and wheaton can be harmfull to dogs

How is it harmful???

 

allergic to winalot

 

I get that at shows, call it "neverwinalot" thought it was because I had ugly dogs, never knew it was an allergy

[paulus 26]

 

 

 

there,s two types of protein ,the protein in raw is ok, the protein in say a bag of dog food that is made with gluton and wheaton can be harmfull to dogs

How is it harmful???

 

allergic to winalot

 

I get that at shows, call it "neverwinalot" thought it was because I had ugly dogs, never knew it was an allergy

 

i am even at shows i have never been to.................................apparently

[Giro 2,648]

Sandy

 

What your preferred staple diet for a dog during the season, that's being worked 4/5 shifts a week.

 

Do you give any supplements or tonics ??

[sandymere 8,261]

Ah but did you win Paulus You might have a champion show dog without knowing , I won the bullcross class at a show I never went to once, wasn’t even in the same county! I call it homeopathic showing, diluted so you can be omnipresent.

 

 

Giro I give cod liver oil but that’s part just because I always have and part to boost the fat content, I don’t use other supplements just increase the volume of feed when working hard. Increasing the volume increases the mineral amounts as well as giving extra protein to repair, more fat and carbs to supply energy. I tend to feed a bigger evening snack in the winter to help to gain the extra volume. In general in the morning I feed meat, say half a rabbit etc, along with either complete, a little more if with pasta, potatoes etc, and a few veggies and in the evening its table scraps, an egg once a week or so along with a table spoon of oil.

 

On rest days I feed more protein as they need to repair rather than run so it would be less complete etc and more meat ie a whole rabbit or equivalent.

 

I used to use every supplement known to man, SA37, electrolytes, extra vit E etc etc but as the years have passed I found that when I ran out the dogs didn’t drop off so slowly the supplements all fell by the wayside. Now I depend on a varied diet with decent meat, complete and all the rest to supply all the vitamins and minerals in a usable form and as I say when the increase the amount of food you naturally increase all those as well. Simple, double the amount of meat you double the amount of iron, potassium, sodium etc without adding a pill or powder that likely wouldn’t be absorbed anyway.

[Giro 2,648]

Thanks for your reply mate

 

What biscuit do you use ??

[sandymere 8,261]

Skinners at the mo, duck and rice,.

 

As an addition to the above....

 

During a long shift on the lamp with lots of slips it’s a good idea to boost the glucose reserves with something like small pieces of a carb type energy bar every now and then or a squirt of sugar/glucose water. I prefer the bar as it will give a slightly more stable release and so more level blood glucose. Then give a small meal as soon as its tongues back in, a handful of complete with a drink will do if away from home, this restocks reserves better/more efficiently ready for the next night