Squirrel Trapping

[Hob&Jill 258]

Was not intending to prolong the death - there's no joy in that - the quicker they're dead the better IMO (IF it's okay to kill), just seems a bit tidier (no mess)!

How convient. Stick it in a bucket of water, give it 5 mins and it will be dead, no blood on your patio and no effort.

 

Im not experianced in drowning things, who is? but it dosent take Einstien to work out its not going to be quick. Hold your breath, until you cant bare it anymore. Imagine another minute or so of it, wouldnt be nice would it? or quick....

 

Rats are about as tough as they come, I regulally see them going under water for 30 seconds or so, just for the sake of it. I should think it would take 5 mins to drown one. Not a nice thought.

 

A bullet in the head is a quick as it could be, it wont even hear the crack of the gun

 

Didnt really offend me, just annoyed me at your clear lack of any respect for them blink:

[Guest ARTEMIS]

Surprisingly drowning a rat IS listed as being humane in this article: (although obviously not in the sense of LAWFULLY being humane!)

http://www.jeanettewinterson.com/pages/con....asp?PageID=124 by comparrison to being hunted by terriers!

 

To trap a rat humanely, you must bait the trap with a sausage - so too bad for the pig - and the rat still has to be killed somehow. I've tried this method, and either you drown the rat in a bucket or you blow its brains out. Either way it squeals continuously.

 

Warfarin, the poison of choice, takes three days to kill a rat, who bleeds to death through the stomach. Any animal or bird that eats the rat will be poisoned too.

 

And obviously I'm not at all suggesting what is written in this article is gospel truth or correct - I am merely presenting the article as something I found easily by googling - something I do when I'm researching a subject. (I'm not done researching yet!).

 

Didnt really offend me, just annoyed me at your clear lack of any respect for them blink:

 

 

Okay, then sorry you feel annoyed that I don't particularly respect rats!

[Hob&Jill 258]

A terrier will kill a rat in seconds, it just dosent look pretty when 2 dogs are tugging there gutts out!

 

Quite honestly I couldnt give a crap what it says in that article. Drowning anything IS NOT humane. Come up with as much info as you like, drowning is not quick, its going to take a few minutes at least. Not quick, Not humane.

 

Shoot something In the brain, its dead. Simple as that. It will twitch etc, but its dead.

 

Think I am going round in circles, if you believe that drowning a rat is more humane than shooting one, then you should do some more reaseach. Find me a article that prooves that drowning is quicker, post it here. I will read it, then dismiss it as shit.

 

H&J

[Guest ARTEMIS]

Just found this on the web:

 

http://www.thezapper.co.uk/zapper.html

 

Don't know how effective it is, but IF it does work, sounds even more humane than even trapping the rat in live trap and shooting it!

 

It's not cheap, but it's cheaper than a pistol!

[Guest ARTEMIS]

Think I am going round in circles, if you believe that drowning a rat is more humane than shooting one, then you should do some more reaseach. Find me a article that prooves that drowning is quicker, post it here. I will read it, then dismiss it as shit.

 

Post #15

Being totally inexperienced of drowning anything - I imagined it WOULD be quick

 

Well, if it's going to be quicker then the answer will be yes ("It's" meaning "shooting it")

 

Was not intending to prolong the death - there's no joy in that - the quicker they're dead the better IMO

 

If it's going to take AGES with the critter struggling away, then obviously drowning it is NOT a good solution as I had imagined

 

Yes - we do seem to be going around in circles, I thought we'd already covered that I had taken the point Drowning was NOT going to be so quick - 3 Days for Warfarin poison to work, Approximately FIVE minutes to drown a rat. A "gun shot" to shoot it - (if you're not counting the time it spends frightened in the cage trying to get out and panicking) or a "Zapp" in the electrocuting Zappa thingy I found on the web. Oh, and I musn't forget the "seconds" for a couple of terriers to tear it in two.

 

There are many ways to deal with the respected or disrespected rat!

Edited August 14, 2007 by ARTEMIS

[proper job 1]

Artemis, I don't think you have anything to apoligise for, all you did was ask a question and H&J has gone off the deep end , don't know why exactly. Humane is a word that people use when they want to justify killing something in a way they think is okay. I, in my time have killed and witnessed 1000's of animals being killed, I have seen humane and I have seen cruelty. Can we guarantee that everytime we kill something it will be "humane", the answer is no. e.g. I've shot a few hundred horses in my time, twice, something went wrong and I had to give them a second shot. Snaring is an example right now, a fox snare must have a relaxing lock, therefore if I catch a fox at midnight and check it at 7 in the morning it's been fighting a snare for 7 hours, a non relaxing lock and it would be dead in under 5 mins, which is more humane? And 5 mins to drown a rat, it must have some lung capacity, I would think it would be unconcious in under a minute, therefore free from pain when it dies, as you have rightly said chasing a rat up and down a cage trying to shoot it would put it under more stress IMO, BUT the law is the law and must be upheld, ps get a few Fenns or Bodygrips and you won't have to worry about killing the Feckin things, all the best PJ

[Guest The Big Fish]

It is suprising how long a fully grown rat can hold its breath for. Years ago i did some scientific tests on this subject and the conclusion was that its best not to drop them in for a swim.

 

All very well for H&J to jump on Artemis for asking about this subject, but for those that dont know about such matters, exactly how are they supposed to gain such knowledge?

 

THATS what the forum is about, to share information.

 

Now i have a question, all my ferrets are fed on a vegitarian diet and all their fur has fallen out, should i change the food, or just knit them little coats?

[Hob&Jill 258]

It wasnt nessesaryily (sp ) the drowning bit that annoyed me. Just the "why do we have to be humane to rats?"

 

If you have a rat in a cage. If you have the choice between shooting it or dorwning it, then I think everyone would agree that shooting is better and quicker. Artemis, I probably got on my high horse abit lol . But you have the choice of shooting the rat or drowning it. If you could cant really justify spending the money on that pistol, you could always buy a cheap air rifle, SMK B2 or something. You can pick them up for £20 I think. Probably wont hit a barn door with it, but point black your not going to miss.

 

Its all very well saying its going to be stressfull 'chasing the rat up and down the cage' but surley it would be more stressfull underwater and not being able to breath?

 

Good luck with the trapping, It also could be an idea for get some fenns. No need to kill anything then, does it for you.

 

Cheers, H&J

 

(Stay away from water though )

[foxdropper 17,092]

Just to add something I've learnt over the years about hedgehogs and this was years ago when most ground dwellers were classed as vermin .The body of a dead hedgehog is irresistable to one of its own kind and was used to clear areas of this egg thief ,draping the body over the tunnel .What i'm saying is never leave the body of a hedgehog near tunnel traps as you will attract more .

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

:rotf: @ TBF! Cracker, mate!

 

 

Artemis; I didn't go in to read that article because I've no interest in reading the ramblings of anyone I percieve as an idiot. The snatches you produced for us convinced me they were written by an idiot. One doubtless comfortably ensconssed in an armchair, head cocked towards the ceiling as they try to imagine their way through various scenario's they've patently had absolutely no experiance of. I can guess what they'd be wearing too .....

 

Go setting Fenn's or Body Grippers and ye'll kill that hedgehog. Maybe that could be highlighted as a consideration in all this?

 

Regards the eternal debate about the 'fear' of a caged animal Vs the 'agony' of my poisoned baits? I have a huge PDF file on here somewhere which examines and discusses it all to the nth degree. However, it's sponsered by IFAW so I'm already dubious of it. I've long since learned of the concept of " Positivist Science ". That in itself strikes me as a contradiction in terms. Science, I've learned, should be based on empiricism. Anyway, let's not get too 'academic' with all this.

 

Here's how I percieve all this. In simple laymans terms, based on a lot of experiance: A caged rat doesn't sit there and think to itself, " Oh shit! I'm trapped! Now that bitch'll come along and blow my f*cking brains out! ". The rat's never met you. It doesn't know you've bought a gun. It certainly wouldn't know an air pistol from a bananna.

 

No. Finding itself contained, it's only instinct is to get back under cover in it's familiar territory. It would be aware, on some basic level, that it may now be exposed to the threat of predation. Not that it'll be thinking about Tawney Owls any more than it will air pistols. So that'll be its priority. That's why it'll make haste to discover a way out. That's why it'll rush about and test the bars with its teeth ~ they being it's main tool of acsessing places, or forming an exit from them. Upon seeing a human form (or a Dog, or owl etc) he'll percieve that here comes trouble and he'd better not be there when it arrives. Thus he hurries up his activities. I'm genuinely not sure I'd equate even that with " Fear " as we'd percieve it.

 

It's my opinion that, when we introduce the gun muzzle and he starts biting it, he's not " Attacking " it, out of fear or viciousness. I believe he simply sees it as a button he hasn't pressed yet. Maybe then he can gnaw his escape route through this point? Ye know what happens next. And despite that clap trap ye brought us above, there's no sqealing. Like I said, they just kick spasmodically for a few seconds.

 

 

Poison? Yes. It causes death by a variety of hemoerages. But does it cause Pain? I honestly don't believe so. Strychnine, undoubtedly, causes immeasurable agony. That's why it's illegal in uk. Cyanide too. But then, they hit the body differantly and target differant nerves and such. Modern rodenticides just thin the blood. Like alcahol does.

 

And that's what I percieve in as yet undead yet poisoned rats I encounter. They act like they're completely as pissed as handcarts. They lose their instinctive wariness and come out in broad daylight. They exhibit clear disorientation. But I'm genuinely yet to find one squealing in pain and distress. They simply don't appear to know what day it is or even what planet they're on. Then their vital organs seem to give up the ghost and they just stop moving and the flies arrive.

 

I'm not pretending I feel it might not be unpleasent. Drink far too much and we don't feel too clever ourselves, do we? We groan and swear 'Never Again!'. But I'm yet to see a drunk writhing in pain and screaming, as people tend to do when suffering abject agony.

 

Anyway, quite enough of my droning. Ye have the cage. Now get the air pistol and do the job as efficiently as can be. That way should be plain enough by now. Why worry about lesser alternatives?

[James@Scarborough 0]

:rotf: @ TBF! Cracker, mate!

 

 

Artemis; I didn't go in to read that article because I've no interest in reading the ramblings of anyone I percieve as an idiot. The snatches you produced for us convinced me they were written by an idiot. One doubtless comfortably ensconssed in an armchair, head cocked towards the ceiling as they try to imagine their way through various scenario's they've patently had absolutely no experiance of. I can guess what they'd be wearing too .....

 

Go setting Fenn's or Body Grippers and ye'll kill that hedgehog. Maybe that could be highlighted as a consideration in all this?

 

Regards the eternal debate about the 'fear' of a caged animal Vs the 'agony' of my poisoned baits? I have a huge PDF file on here somewhere which examines and discusses it all to the nth degree. However, it's sponsered by IFAW so I'm already dubious of it. I've long since learned of the concept of " Positivist Science ". That in itself strikes me as a contradiction in terms. Science, I've learned, should be based on empiricism. Anyway, let's not get too 'academic' with all this.

 

Here's how I percieve all this. In simple laymans terms, based on a lot of experiance: A caged rat doesn't sit there and think to itself, " Oh shit! I'm trapped! Now that bitch'll come along and blow my f*cking brains out! ". The rat's never met you. It doesn't know you've bought a gun. It certainly wouldn't know an air pistol from a bananna.

 

No. Finding itself contained, it's only instinct is to get back under cover in it's familiar territory. It would be aware, on some basic level, that it may now be exposed to the threat of predation. Not that it'll be thinking about Tawney Owls any more than it will air pistols. So that'll be its priority. That's why it'll make haste to discover a way out. That's why it'll rush about and test the bars with its teeth ~ they being it's main tool of acsessing places, or forming an exit from them. Upon seeing a human form (or a Dog, or owl etc) he'll percieve that here comes trouble and he'd better not be there when it arrives. Thus he hurries up his activities. I'm genuinely not sure I'd equate even that with " Fear " as we'd percieve it.

 

It's my opinion that, when we introduce the gun muzzle and he starts biting it, he's not " Attacking " it, out of fear or viciousness. I believe he simply sees it as a button he hasn't pressed yet. Maybe then he can gnaw his escape route through this point? Ye know what happens next. And despite that clap trap ye brought us above, there's no sqealing. Like I said, they just kick spasmodically for a few seconds.

 

 

Poison? Yes. It causes death by a variety of hemoerages. But does it cause Pain? I honestly don't believe so. Strychnine, undoubtedly, causes immeasurable agony. That's why it's illegal in uk. Cyanide too. But then, they hit the body differantly and target differant nerves and such. Modern rodenticides just thin the blood. Like alcahol does.

 

And that's what I percieve in as yet undead yet poisoned rats I encounter. They act like they're completely as pissed as handcarts. They lose their instinctive wariness and come out in broad daylight. They exhibit clear disorientation. But I'm genuinely yet to find one squealing in pain and distress. They simply don't appear to know what day it is or even what planet they're on. Then their vital organs seem to give up the ghost and they just stop moving and the flies arrive.

 

I'm not pretending I feel it might not be unpleasent. Drink far too much and we don't feel too clever ourselves, do we? We groan and swear 'Never Again!'. But I'm yet to see a drunk writhing in pain and screaming, as people tend to do when suffering abject agony.

 

Anyway, quite enough of my droning. Ye have the cage. Now get the air pistol and do the job as efficiently as can be. That way should be plain enough by now. Why worry about lesser alternatives?

 

[Madcowz 0]

But I'm yet to see a drunk writhing in pain and screaming, as people tend to do when suffering abject agony.

 

 

And you are yet to see me with a hangover!

 

 

 

/Mad

[victoria vixen 0]

:rotf: @ TBF! Cracker, mate!

 

Strychnine, undoubtedly, causes immeasurable agony. That's why it's illegal in uk. Cyanide too.

 

Is Austalia and /or New Zealand in the UK ? They use stryhnine there on Bushy tailed 'possums and Dingos.

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

No, mate. I think ye'll find Australia's on the other side of the world and about as concerned with british sovereignty as USA is. As for New Zealand? Other than the fact that it's in the same area, I genuinely haven't got a clue.

[James@Scarborough 0]

Getting back to squirrels for a second, the best trap for them is a "Cannia trap" but they are expensive. It is unlikely you will catch anything other than a sqirrel in one if you use it correctly.