vixen 528 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 The only dissadvantage an undershot dog has is that it wont win shows :cray: NOW.............that's a whole different ball game................where do i start :laugh: Quote Link to post
liamdelaney 2,585 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 knowi a bloke who has a lakie dog with an awful shot mouth and its been used for stud loads of time and hasn t thrown a pup yet with an undershot mouth , undershot mouths are usally a result of inbreeding to tight its known to jump generations and will come out in a pup somewhere down the line buit if the dogs a good worker i would let it put you off breeding it but be prepared to cull hard if need be You honestly believe that?????????? Why what has he said that is wrong?,we bred several times from dogs with bad mouths if you know the history of the dogs involved it can be done with success,IE if both dog and bitch have a history of bad mouths on both sides don't do it,KNOW YOUR BREEDING.Better a good pup with a bad mouth than a bad pup with a good one.You were quick to ridicule the man's opinion(at least he gave one)but did not give one of your own.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WELL SAID If you read the thread properly then you will see that Bigbear1990 asked a question......."would a bad mouth pass on to pups"....... i answered the post, then TOPPER answered after me and i asked him a question....................not rocket science duh!!!!!!! i didn't ridicule anyone, some guys on here manage that for themselves!! I did read it,he gave his opinion,you just made a statement,and the manner of your question was condescending.Mabye less of the duh!!!!!!not really in to the Simson's I wouldn't say condescending or patronizing i'd say maybe more facetious........... Condescending sounds better.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like facetious better and as i'm getting the blame i want facetious OK you can have it. Quote Link to post
vixen 528 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 knowi a bloke who has a lakie dog with an awful shot mouth and its been used for stud loads of time and hasn t thrown a pup yet with an undershot mouth , undershot mouths are usally a result of inbreeding to tight its known to jump generations and will come out in a pup somewhere down the line buit if the dogs a good worker i would let it put you off breeding it but be prepared to cull hard if need be You honestly believe that?????????? Why what has he said that is wrong?,we bred several times from dogs with bad mouths if you know the history of the dogs involved it can be done with success,IE if both dog and bitch have a history of bad mouths on both sides don't do it,KNOW YOUR BREEDING.Better a good pup with a bad mouth than a bad pup with a good one.You were quick to ridicule the man's opinion(at least he gave one)but did not give one of your own.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WELL SAID If you read the thread properly then you will see that Bigbear1990 asked a question......."would a bad mouth pass on to pups"....... i answered the post, then TOPPER answered after me and i asked him a question....................not rocket science duh!!!!!!! i didn't ridicule anyone, some guys on here manage that for themselves!! I did read it,he gave his opinion,you just made a statement,and the manner of your question was condescending.Mabye less of the duh!!!!!!not really in to the Simson's I wouldn't say condescending or patronizing i'd say maybe more facetious........... Condescending sounds better.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I like facetious better and as i'm getting the blame i want facetious OK you can have it. Quote Link to post
Cleanspade 3,322 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 the thing is. you dont want bad mouths appearing in every other litter of working terriers. as with most things it comes in degree's and breeding off a terrier with a bad mouth even a slight bad mouth and you are putting this into your terriers. when in reality you should be trying to avoid faults creeping in. the average litter percentage that make good workers isnt as high as folk think and if you have also to cull a percentage due to bad mouths. you could well be culling your best workers due to them being born with a fault . there are bad mouths right through most lines of working terriers and it can be a problem. ive seen one or two worked. (NOT HARD TERRIERS) but decent bay and bite) sorts and they lost most of the bottom dentures. early. and it certainly helped the show career of one terrier. and his stud career did not to bad either. it won under working judges that faulted it when it had teeth. and then placed it once foxes had removed them. the same judge that should have known better placed a russell with one nut as best in show. when a young lad questioned his wisdom. he laughed and said they dont work a fox with there baws son. this is a working show its time folk woke up to the problems caused deliberately introducing hereditery faults. if a dog works well with a bad mouth then fine work it. just dont breed off of it. and dont breed off any dog or bitch known to pass these problems. also be aware that under and over shot in terriers can be severe and some you wont need to cull as they will fade due to an inability to suckle. 4 Quote Link to post
Birchdown 38 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) the thing is. you dont want bad mouths appearing in every other litter of working terriers. as with most things it comes in degree's and breeding off a terrier with a bad mouth even a slight bad mouth and you are putting this into your terriers. when in reality you should be trying to avoid faults creeping in. the average litter percentage that make good workers isnt as high as folk think and if you have also to cull a percentage due to bad mouths. you could well be culling your best workers due to them being born with a fault . there are bad mouths right through most lines of working terriers and it can be a problem. ive seen one or two worked. (NOT HARD TERRIERS) but decent bay and bite) sorts and they lost most of the bottom dentures. early. and it certainly helped the show career of one terrier. and his stud career did not to bad either. it won under working judges that faulted it when it had teeth. and then placed it once foxes had removed them. the same judge that should have known better placed a russell with one nut as best in show. when a young lad questioned his wisdom. he laughed and said they dont work a fox with there baws son. this is a working show its time folk woke up to the problems caused deliberately introducing hereditery faults. if a dog works well with a bad mouth then fine work it. just dont breed off of it. and dont breed off any dog or bitch known to pass these problems. also be aware that under and over shot in terriers can be severe and some you wont need to cull as they will fade due to an inability to suckle. :thumbs: nicely put....deliberately breeding from stock with a major hereditary fault is a big no no in my view, and i'm really surprised that the first question had to be asked. Edited January 13, 2013 by Birchdown 2 Quote Link to post
spazzy paddy 127 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) pup a mate had,out of well known lines Edited January 13, 2013 by spazzy paddy Quote Link to post
MAIN MAN 277 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 some times the mouth will right its self as the terrier grows older! terriers with bull blood tend to throw bad mouths, but unless you want to show them cant see its a big deal. Good luck with your choice its up to you mate. 1 Quote Link to post
jawn 449 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) I have seen over bites close over time. But I personaly have never seen an under shot dog end up changing. I HAVE seen them work as well as dogs with correct or scissor bites. Edited January 13, 2013 by jawn 1 Quote Link to post
wooly 24 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I had a litter of 8 pups 18 months ago neither parents have bad jaws, out of the 8 pups 1 was undershot apparently both parents have to carry the gene to produce an undershot pup but I own both parents neither have any bad mouths in their past ancestry. I kept 3 of the pups including the dog pup with the undershot jaw it cause's him know problems at all and early indications he will turn out a good worker if so I would be happy to breed from him but would probably not breed as close as I normally would like to. 2 Quote Link to post
jawn 449 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Last year I tightened up on a line of dogs I hun,t and ended up having to cull a few, but also ended up with some fantastic prospects. One bitch had a serious over bite though neither parent has ever thrown this trait when outcrossed in the past. The sire of the litter is already a line bred dog. I guess when I went tighter I pulled some recessives back out. Live and learn. Quote Link to post
colliexgreyhound 119 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I have a patterdale that is undershot 1.5cm it hasnt stopped him eating or holding his quarry. They might look ugly but it wont affect their working ability. Quote Link to post
fatlad 250 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 about 1993 i saw a under shot dog that was a exellent dog he was bred from nuttal stuff he only ever threw good mouths until he was lined to a quite closly related dog then 2 out of 6 were undershot id say you could breed from them aslong as you dont breed to close Quote Link to post
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