Which rifle to apply for - 1st application

[fiona22 0]

Hi, I am a newbie - a female member from West Wales.............

 

I already have a Shotgun Certificate, and regularly use an air rifle - but the time has come for me to apply for a FAC.

I want it because we have way too many rabbits on our land and we also have a fox that visits from time to time. The rabbits are too far away for my cheap airgun, and the shotgun makes too much of a mess of the meat, and the fox doesnt come close enough for the shotgun.

 

So, the question is which rifles do I ask for?

Basc have advised me that the common rifles that people ask for are the 17hmr and a 22lr.

The guy at my local gun shop advised me to ask for a .22 rimfire, .17 rimfire and a .22 centrefire. Obviously I dont expect to get all of these rifles, but its cheaper to ask for them now than it is to apply for them after they have issued the FAC.

The guy at the gun shop said that a 22 magnum (i think rimfire) is a nice rifle and pretty good value.

 

I am just confused because of all of the different numbers/calibres he threw at me!!!

He also said something about applying for a .22 rimfire magnum, .17 hmr and a .22 hmr - centrefire magnum??? Is there such a thing?

 

Any help greatly appreciated. Also I would like the rabbits to be edible, so I dont want overkill.

 

Thanks - Fiona

[Simonrees 45]

I think West Wales is Dyfed/Powys, if so I'm pretty certain they will allow .17hmr for Fox, Perhaps Sporting Shooter on here can clarify for you. If so I would recommend applying a standard .22rf (rimfire), forget the magnum, and a .17hmr. You could if you wish apply for a centre fire such as a .223 etc but you would need to prove you need it, but if they allow .17 for fox which I think they do, that would negate the need for the centre fire possibly. In any case i would speak to you licensing dept. and ask their advise.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Simonrees

[charlie-fox 1]

I'm under ddyfed Powys n they let me use my HMR on foxes, the new Fao is sound does a bit him self which is nice change

[stubby 175]

why not just apply for .22 and 17, wait for your interview and then tell him what you have stated in your opening post, he will tell you what you can or cant have then its in the bag, dont forget to ask/apply for moderators and expanding ammo (sub sonics)

[fiona22 0]

Thanks for all the reply's

 

I just don't want them to laugh at me for asking for a 223 if you guys think I don't need it, the the police will definately not allow it. The trouble I have is that we have long fields, maybe 350+ yards which stretch downwards, so a safe shot I would say?? Obviously I dont expect to shoot out this far, but hopefully would be able to kill foxes and rabbits at approx 200 yards after practicing. Would a 17hmr or 22rf be capable of this (or is it even likely that I will be capable of this?)

 

You are all correct, I am under Dyfed-Powys Police

 

Thanks again

Edited May 10, 2012 by fiona22

[zx10mike 137]

the .17 hmr is great around the 100 yrd -150yrd mark and an ideal place to start.with a bit of skill you can enjoy stalking the rest of the range.a 223 is a centerfire with much more energy.great for foxes bit overkill on rabbits but thats your call.the hmr is much much cheaper on ammo for bunny bashing.if your new to rifles i would put a shout out on here and see if anyone can show you the ropes.in your message after safe shot there should be no doubt in yourself not i would say.thats why a couple of trips out with someone who knows his onions would ge great .if you take a fox with a hmr for the sake of the fox make it a head shot (lots of target practice first) a hmr will kill a fox every time but you want it dead before it hears the shot.atb mike

[matt_hooks 188]

Firstly, forget "need". You don't have to prove you "need" a specific calibre to have it issued. You need to prove "reasonable cause" to hold.

 

Is shooting foxes reasonable cause to hold a .223? Of course it is! If you need to shoot foxes at the ranges you mention then I'd say you have every right to ask for it, and THEY need to make a case that says you're not allowed it because of public safety concerns. Don't fall for the "let them tell you what you can have" BS, it's not up to them to make those decisions and you'll almost certainly end up not having the proper tools to do what you want. If you think the .223 is the best calibre for your needs then put it on your application!

 

The .17 is a good round, but a lot of people are reporting major problems with the ammunition. It's inconsistent and sometimes even dangerous.

 

The .22 magnum rimfire is also known as a .22WMR (short for Winchester Magnum Rimfire) and is the parent case that the HMR uses. It is a great round, with loads of ammunition choices and offers much better downrange performance than the .17. It's not a centrefire but it's the next best thing.

 

The .22LR will be your friend if you want to eat the bunnies. If the shotgun does too much meat damage then you don't want to see what a .17HMR or .22WMR can do.

 

So ask for the tools you would like to do the job. Don't stand for any BS. If they want to restrict you ask to see the evidence of increased public safety for the restrictions they want to impose, and don't be afraid to up the ante by approaching the Chief Constable if you thin they aren't dealing with you fairly.

 

Settled case law states that the people charged with administering firearms licencing must approach each application individually, and from the point of view of the applicant and NOT from the point of view of any possible objectors. Have the courage to go for the tools you require and stick to your guns (if you'll excuse the horrible pun).

 

I'm intrigued by your statement that "obviously I don't expect to get all these guns". Why on earth not? By issuing an FAC they are tacitly stating that they consider that you can safely possess a firearm "in all cases". If you have a genuine reason to possess each of the calibres then why would you expect them not to issue them?

 

Good luck with your application.

Edited May 10, 2012 by matt_hooks

[3175darren 1,093]

Why not sudjest a sako quad,in 17hmr and 22 rimfire both calibers one gun see if they accept that,I have very little expeirience of 17 hmr on foxes, I think I have seen maybee two or three shot with one no more than 80yds, but people say they are capable, I myself would go larger for foxes though 222 or 223

[Night Hunter 109]

If you apply for .22lr and 17 hmr its worth looking at a sako quad ...one quality rifle two interchangeable barrels I am thinking about going down that road when I renew my ticket but I am told the 17hmr costs a fair bit more than a .22lr to feed,worth a thought......

[Night Hunter 109]

Why not sudjest a sako quad,in 17hmr and 22 rimfire both calibers one gun see if they accept that,I have very little expeirience of 17 hmr on foxes, I think I have seen maybee two or three shot with one no more than 80yds, but people say they are capable, I myself would go larger for foxes though 222 or 223

 

beat me to it damn one finger typing...lol

[matt_hooks 188]

I'm not sure I go for the Quad methodology. Swapping the barrel will inevitably necessitate re-zeroing of the scope, which is time consuming and, especially for the .17, costly. It means that you can't just go to the cabinet and guarantee to have the correct tool ready and properly zeroed for the job you need to do. Also if you have only one piece of ground you are likely to scare everything away zeroing.

 

You can buy two good quality second hand rifles (CZ452 for example) for the price of a quad and a spare barrel.

 

I think it's a nice idea, and they are great bits of engineering, but the maths just doesn't stack up for me.

 

All that, of course, is entirely beside the point of the original post, as the request was about what calibre/cartridge to apply for, not the specific make and model of rifle.

 

There are pages and pages of discussion on the suitability of the .17 as a foxing round. The consensus seems to be that it'll do the job if required, but isn't the best tool for the job. Much like the end of a butter knife will tighten a loose screw if required, but a screwdriver does it better.

 

The way I see it we owe it to our quarry to use enough gun to get the job done quickly and humanely. A .22LR will quite happily dispatch a fox given the right range and shot placement, but I certainly wouldn't go out specifically looking for Charlie armed just with a .22LR.

Edited May 10, 2012 by matt_hooks

[SportingShooter 0]

I think the OP is getting lots of number/calibres from us all as well as BASC...

 

In that situation, personally, a .22LR is a must have for anyone with a bunny problem. They're just the bread and butter Rabbit round and always will be.

 

I would then ask for a second rifle to deal with the fox, any of the usual Foxing calibres would be fine .222, .223, .22-250 etc

 

I'm in West Wales and the licensing department to be honest is very good. They have the highest ratio of weapons to population in the UK and so have one of the largest licensing departments.

 

As mentioned above somewhere, if you need some local guidance with the rifle, i'll help if I can.

 

SS

[Fisheruk 1]

Thanks for all the reply's

 

I just don't want them to laugh at me for asking for a 223 if you guys think I don't need it, the the police will definately not allow it. The trouble I have is that we have long fields, maybe 350+ yards which stretch downwards, so a safe shot I would say?? Obviously I dont expect to shoot out this far, but hopefully would be able to kill foxes and rabbits at approx 200 yards after practicing. Would a 17hmr or 22rf be capable of this (or is it even likely that I will be capable of this?)

 

You are all correct, I am under Dyfed-Powys Police

 

Thanks again

 

Both .22rf and 17hmr will kill anything with the right shot placement and if you are close enough. 17hmr is easily able to do a fox out to 70 yrds. Advantage of fox is that you can usually bait it in to a spot within range and use the 17 if you have fox on your ticket. The .223 is a big step up from a rimmy and I doubt whether you would get it approved on your ticket until you have experience with the rimmys. Best of luck. Have you tried Valley Arms in Ruthin. Great guys and really helpful.

[matt_hooks 188]

It's a brave statement to say that a .22LR will kill "anything" I don't think I'd like to try that theory out on, say, a lion or an elephant.

 

That said, I have used .22LR to dispatch horses, Fallow and Roe at close range and it is very effective. For bigger animals the heavier, slower round is probably more effective as it tends to penetrate before expanding too much. The .17 would tend to fragment at the first sign of heavy bone and not carry the energy deep enough to ensure a humane kill.

[PlasticJock 539]

It's a brave statement to say that a .22LR will kill "anything" I don't think I'd like to try that theory out on, say, a lion or an elephant.

 

That said, I have used .22LR to dispatch horses, Fallow and Roe at close range and it is very effective. For bigger animals the heavier, slower round is probably more effective as it tends to penetrate before expanding too much. The .17 would tend to fragment at the first sign of heavy bone and not carry the energy deep enough to ensure a humane kill.

 

+1... Shame the police don't see larger, heavier calibre pistols for humane dispatch in the same light...