Does a terrier really need to come from the best breeding? (Please read, it's a good topic!)

[Guest busterdog]

ive seen a few very good working. /mongrel/ terriers. most i have to say have been brought on by keen young lads. one or two would have put many a well bred worker to shame. and was capable of embarassing. some of the smug feckers that think they have top of the range workers. to me the only problem is when you come to replicate your little wonderdog. its nigh on impossible. a good dog is where you find it. but if you want to consistently keep and work terriers then you need to get good well bred stock. and maybe one day i will do this as the old saying goes 90% breeding. 10% feeding.

 

What he said lol

[south paw48 27]

YOU have to breed the best to the best in this game no weaknesses allowed onboth sides just not any old crap would do.

[Born Hunter 17,638]

Just out of interest, has anybody ever gone to a kennel and had a look to see if there was anything that looked like it had seen abit? I genuinely have no idea what you would find in such places. Do the powers that be even rehome marked up terriers?

[LUMPHAMMER 324]

This man obviously walks round with ''Plastic false arms'' while ''Pulling himself off violently''

[Carraghs Gem 1,675]

Just out of interest, has anybody ever gone to a kennel and had a look to see if there was anything that looked like it had seen abit? I genuinely have no idea what you would find in such places. Do the powers that be even rehome marked up terriers?

i scan through the websites for the local pound once in a while but last time i was interested in a pound dog they wanted 100 quid and its not like you get a trial with the dog.

[Guest busterdog]

If i was to go to any pound for terrier (cold day in hell) then i'de take a youngster that showed no work, most terriers IMO are ruined by the idiots that plague our sport and anything that showed work would probably be there for a reason.

[keep digging 35]

breeding means everything 100% 2 100% sometimes that also may throw a dud but its the best way 2 go wudnt breed out of any less of a dog just on the chance it might work! u can show it all u want hunting wise if it aint there it just aint! u might get a 1 off but thats up 2 u if u wana spend months an months with something that might? 100 2 100 4 me! only my opinion sum may disagree

[Carraghs Gem 1,675]

If i was to go to any pound for terrier (cold day in hell) then i'de take a youngster that showed no work, most terriers IMO are ruined by the idiots that plague our sport and anything that showed work would probably be there for a reason.

 

i was looking at lurchers, already have enough terriers to keep me going for a while

[Mosby 355]

I'm with busterdog, if I went to a pound, a pup would be the only way to go. Sad thing is they neuter what comes in. You'd have to strike a deal with the folks at the pound to call you in whenever terriers come in. I have a buddy who got the best jack russells he'd ever had from a rescue he had such a deal with. He'd get all the dogs that were going to be euthenized for aggressiveness. I saw some of these dogs. They were great. And some produced. It is true that alot of the wonderdogs don't produce. Same can be said with linebred dogs too. I am curious what percentage peoples litters are really producing of great workers. Shouldn't be so hard to find a good terrier if the genius idea of best to best produces the best percentages --( which livestock breeders would tell you is not the way to go around things.)

 

I had a buddy from the state university come over and talk breeding plans with me. He essentially told me that hunting dog men all have the same plan. It's technical term is "single culling". He informed me that is actually the slowest way to produce results out of the four accepted breeding practices that have any sort of consistency. I'm gonna have him come over again and lay out a plan that is better. Cause I still can't find in all my reading what is, but coming from the guy who studies the stuff all the time, single culling/best to best is not so great.

[Guest busterdog]

The bitch i was lucky enough to own was as good as any terrier i've ever seen, it didn't matter to me when i was digging to her that she came from a pound and it didn't matter to the game either. I took this bitch out for a day with nick stevens, he'd heard all about it but had never seen her work. We were given a tour of the farm by the owner who stayed with us for the days sport, i was in the front seat of his land drover and was watching ns through the corner of my eye and he was knocking the bitch down when she tried to get a fuss from him. We went into the double figures that day all with that bitch and all different digs, needless to say on the trip back to the farmhouse he wasn't knocking it down anymore. I totaly agree with line breeding but when you get an animal with such work drive and gameness you'de have to be a tit not to try and get something from it, all i could do was to bring her blood into the line and fold her in, you've just got to be honest with the stock you get from such matings.

ps, i gave this bitch to DF when i gave up terriers in one of my fits of depression, i've heard it on the grape vine that it was just sent out to Ireland to be mated.

pps i could also put a good long list of some very well known terriermen that have her blood in there yards.

[MUDD 374]

There's been a few I know of in the past from the pound that have turned out well, I myself would rather have breeding behind any pups I'm rearing.... Thing also I've noticed on a few occasions. a young dog no matter how well bred etc that didn't make the grade in one mans yard and if for example had to be returned to who bred it or someone else, turned out to be first class !! Change off yard, surrondings, lifestyle all could play a part. That alone shows rearing or how they're run on does make a difference. Atb

[stop.end 4,079]

got a bitch which will be 12 years ole on 14;2;2012 shes got no diggig blood no fancy names and as a pup till about 2years she was a brushin dog and not the best i can tell ya. then one day i went out and she self enter and bolted a fox and didnt look back. not a hard core diggin dog BUT A DOG WHICH WHEN OUT WOULD FINE MORE FOXES THEN A PACK OF HOUNDS SO TO SPEAK she could be called out after a bit of swearin and the ole girl would stop bayin thinkin she fooled me and i get of her case. the most she found to ground is 5 in a mornin take this bitch any were and she fine ya sport

LMAO.... AYE ITS ALRIGHT FINDING THEM BUDDY....BUT ITS BUSTING IN THE SOIL ROUND THEM THATS WHAT COUNTS .... WELL TO ME ANYWAY AS I SAY ........ STANDARDS atb

[goat breath 10]

when i was a lad as big as mi dad i used to mooch the local pits , tips and railway lines with a fella who acquired a dog that resembled a terrier but with breeding unknown . he was free to a good home as he was creating havoc. this fella preached to me how this young dog was going to prove that breeding meant nothing , and it was all about "you get out what you put in" .credit to the fella he put miles and hours into the dog but all it ever got good at was flushing pheasant , i dont think it ever showed any interest in going to ground , nay mind doing a job when it got there lol .after a couple of year the dog ended up back in a pet home with an old boy down the local who knew how to handle a dog . the fella i mooched with carried on in his world , acquiring , buying , selling and pup breeding . and me , i'm still a twat but i,m a twat that can learn from others mistakes as well as his own

[stop.end 4,079]

got a bitch which will be 12 years ole on 14;2;2012 shes got no diggig blood no fancy names and as a pup till about 2years she was a brushin dog and not the best i can tell ya. then one day i went out and she self enter and bolted a fox and didnt look back. not a hard core diggin dog BUT A DOG WHICH WHEN OUT WOULD FINE MORE FOXES THEN A PACK OF HOUNDS SO TO SPEAK she could be called out after a bit of swearin and the ole girl would stop bayin thinkin she fooled me and i get of her case. the most she found to ground is 5 in a mornin take this bitch any were and she fine ya sport

LMAO.... AYE ITS ALRIGHT FINDING THEM BUDDY....BUT ITS BUSTING IN THE SOIL ROUND THEM THATS WHAT COUNTS .... WELL TO ME ANYWAY AS I SAY ........ STANDARDS atb

PLUS HOW DO YOU KNOW SHE WASNT JUST HAPPY BARKING TO KEEP DADDY HAPPY.... its just i didnt read the bit in the post where she either bolted or dug the foxes so how you know what it was?? or did you donn the miners helmet and go take a wee look yourself just to make sure like ?...

[p3d 879]

I dont see the big deal about getting dogs with unbelievable breeding in them! I think that no matter where the terrier comes from, if you bring it out with you hunting every day that you can get out then it should be very good! I have a border terrier that is only 10 months old and has already dug out two foxes!! And as you probably know it is sposed to take border terriers nearly 2 years maybe even 3 years before they start going to ground! I also have a jack russel terrier bitch that came from pure harmless parents that wouldnt kill a mouse and she is nearly a year and a half and has dug out plenty of foxes with her! She is a very very good terrier and is jst as good as any other working terrier, probably better than a lot of them! This just proves that you do not need a terrier to come from the best terriers in the country as long as you put a lot of time into them!!

 

If you are as young as one of the posts said.

Then you are in a similar place that a lot of terrier men can remember from when they started out. (including me).

Starting off with a Border or Russell that the breeding is unknown and putting a lot of time into them, is not a bad place to start IMO.

You have to learn a lot about working dogs in general. You seem to be lucky to have found a couple of terriers that will teach you.

It will be harder work to bring them on, but you can develop a better understanding of entering and digging to these dogs.

 

Would it be easier to get a couple of pups from a great line? of course it would. Your confidence in them would be higher.

It would also be easier to get a couple of 12 month old working terriers that have been entered. take them on trial and if happy, buy them.

 

But... you would then be a "man who has terriers", it would not help you become a good "terrierman".

If your two young dogs are working for you, no harm in sticking with them for now.

 

Later after you have seen other terrier men's breeding methods and seen their terriers work,

and more importantly the fact that they can breed more workers,

you may come to see the big deal about getting dogs with unbelievable breeding in them.

And then maybe not!

 

ATB.