Whats peoples thoughts on unmated jills.

[cathunter 8]

i got told form my old timer mate that they can die if not taken out of season, but i've never tested it thow.

he also said that if he didn't want kits he used to leave the buck in there with the doe and he'd clean them up when born. never heard of vacc hobs till i came on this site.

we all have our own view

[Leeview 787]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Edited September 15, 2011 by Leeview

[ferret100 47]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Very simple, you stated leaving jills in season has no ill effects, I stated if that is true, would you have you jills tested to prove your opinion right, you agreed, I stated that if you are right, I'd pay. As you are so convinced you would be right, then why would you have to pay a penny? Seems you have no conviction behind your theory.... Ultimately you have been asked to prove you are right, and you won't back it up, just bitch about money. All talk and no trousers... If you are prepared to justify your opinions, then pm me, as I requested before.

[Leeview 787]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Very simple, you stated leaving jills in season has no ill effects, I stated if that is true, would you have you jills tested to prove your opinion right, you agreed, I stated that if you are right, I'd pay. As you are so convinced you would be right, then why would you have to pay a penny? Seems you have no conviction behind your theory.... Ultimately you have been asked to prove you are right, and you won't back it up, just bitch about money. All talk and no trousers... If you are prepared to justify your opinions, then pm me, as I requested before.

Will not pm you, keep it here for all to read I've nothing to hide

If your so right why would nt you pay to prove it? this is about jills being left in season, which if you care to read back you 'll find only the one member that has lost a jill,whereas myself and other far more experienced ferret owners than yourself(more each day) stating they have left jills in season and have never lost one or had ill side effects Brimmer asked what these signs to look for pointing to jills having these ill side effects which you have chose to ignore

So cut to the quick here you have no jills you can have tested for these illnesses? I HAVE and will have them tested at your expense simple

Y.I.S Leeview

[ferret100 47]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Very simple, you stated leaving jills in season has no ill effects, I stated if that is true, would you have you jills tested to prove your opinion right, you agreed, I stated that if you are right, I'd pay. As you are so convinced you would be right, then why would you have to pay a penny? Seems you have no conviction behind your theory.... Ultimately you have been asked to prove you are right, and you won't back it up, just bitch about money. All talk and no trousers... If you are prepared to justify your opinions, then pm me, as I requested before.

Will not pm you, keep it here for all to read I've nothing to hide

If your so right why would nt you pay to prove it? this is about jills being left in season, which if you care to read back you 'll find only the one member that has lost a jill,whereas myself and other far more experienced ferret owners than yourself(more each day) stating they have left jills in season and have never lost one or had ill side effects Brimmer asked what these signs to look for pointing to jills having these ill side effects which you have chose to ignore

So cut to the quick here you have no jills you can have tested for these illnesses? I HAVE and will have them tested at your expense simple

Y.I.S Leeview

If, for example, you are willing to have your jills tested, and your theory is proven wrong, what then?

[Leeview 787]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Very simple, you stated leaving jills in season has no ill effects, I stated if that is true, would you have you jills tested to prove your opinion right, you agreed, I stated that if you are right, I'd pay. As you are so convinced you would be right, then why would you have to pay a penny? Seems you have no conviction behind your theory.... Ultimately you have been asked to prove you are right, and you won't back it up, just bitch about money. All talk and no trousers... If you are prepared to justify your opinions, then pm me, as I requested before.

Will not pm you, keep it here for all to read I've nothing to hide

If your so right why would nt you pay to prove it? this is about jills being left in season, which if you care to read back you 'll find only the one member that has lost a jill,whereas myself and other far more experienced ferret owners than yourself(more each day) stating they have left jills in season and have never lost one or had ill side effects Brimmer asked what these signs to look for pointing to jills having these ill side effects which you have chose to ignore

So cut to the quick here you have no jills you can have tested for these illnesses? I HAVE and will have them tested at your expense simple

Y.I.S Leeview

If, for example, you are willing to have your jills tested, and your theory is proven wrong, what then?

 

HMmm you'd be right which would enhance your credentials and 1 other member on here, myself I cant change over 50yrs of past experience of healthy, fit, working ferrets that have had no illness or side effects through being left in season

Y.I.S Leeview

[Brimmer 220]

Just as a matter of interest, and wont be dragged into any arguement, i'd like to ask what the test results would show? Would they conclusivley reveal that for deffo a ferret was suffering any ill effects due to not being mated, Or just increased levels of this and that, which could cause harm through that and this? See my point? theres a lot of talk about it could and does, but not many folk can tell you.anything but hype, and rarely do. (one post told of a few symptoms, but do they prove it is due to this?).

 

Anyway, being safe never hurt anyone, so the measures taken cannot be ignored, put the snipped hob over them, or get the jab you will be safe then.

 

One idea though, could the weaker animals that are suffering these fatal afflictions be this way down to inbreeding? Most folks have not got a clue as to where the bloodline came from, (Myself included) and know for certain a lot of this goes on. Just my thoughts for the evening.

[ferret100 47]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Very simple, you stated leaving jills in season has no ill effects, I stated if that is true, would you have you jills tested to prove your opinion right, you agreed, I stated that if you are right, I'd pay. As you are so convinced you would be right, then why would you have to pay a penny? Seems you have no conviction behind your theory.... Ultimately you have been asked to prove you are right, and you won't back it up, just bitch about money. All talk and no trousers... If you are prepared to justify your opinions, then pm me, as I requested before.

Will not pm you, keep it here for all to read I've nothing to hide

If your so right why would nt you pay to prove it? this is about jills being left in season, which if you care to read back you 'll find only the one member that has lost a jill,whereas myself and other far more experienced ferret owners than yourself(more each day) stating they have left jills in season and have never lost one or had ill side effects Brimmer asked what these signs to look for pointing to jills having these ill side effects which you have chose to ignore

So cut to the quick here you have no jills you can have tested for these illnesses? I HAVE and will have them tested at your expense simple

Y.I.S Leeview

If, for example, you are willing to have your jills tested, and your theory is proven wrong, what then?

 

HMmm you'd be right which would enhance your credentials and 1 other member on here, myself I cant change over 50yrs of past experience of healthy, fit, working ferrets that have had no illness or side effects through being left in season

Y.I.S Leeview

So you mean that, evidence wouldn't change your opinion?

[ferret100 47]

Just as a matter of interest, and wont be dragged into any arguement, i'd like to ask what the test results would show? Would they conclusivley reveal that for deffo a ferret was suffering any ill effects due to not being mated, Or just increased levels of this and that, which could cause harm through that and this? See my point? theres a lot of talk about it could and does, but not many folk can tell you.anything but hype, and rarely do. (one post told of a few symptoms, but do they prove it is due to this?).

 

Anyway, being safe never hurt anyone, so the measures taken cannot be ignored, put the snipped hob over them, or get the jab you will be safe then.

 

One idea though, could the weaker animals that are suffering these fatal afflictions be this way down to inbreeding? Most folks have not got a clue as to where the bloodline came from, (Myself included) and know for certain a lot of this goes on. Just my thoughts for the evening.

Yes, the results would conclusively show that a jill left in season has ill effects on her health. With any illness, disease or condition, certain abnormalites and/or clinical signs are presented, these are then confirmed via the relevant methods, and the appropriate treatment given at that time. The extent of test/examination findings of a jill left in season would depend on how long she has been left in that state. The blood sample analysis of a jill left in season would highlight corresponding abnormal cell counts, thus confirming clinical symptoms and the condition presented. The cell count would include red blood cell, white blood cell and blood platelets, these would prove to be outside normal parameters, confirming prolonged oestrus typical in induced ovulators, as ferrets are, has ill effects.

 

Increased daylight, or Photoperiod triggers oestrus in a jill. In order to be able to come into season, high levels of oestrogen must be produced, this hormone causes all the signs of 'heat'. Without high levels of oestrogen a jill would not come into season or be able to breed. A jill won't ovulate until she is mated and the increased light in the summer months continue to trigger the oestrus cycle, so oestrogen levels remain very high. Over time, high levels of oestrogen cause oestrogen toxicity, which damages bone marrow. Bone marrow is responsible for producing red blood cells (RBC), white blood cells (WBC) and blood platelets, so if the bone marrow is damaged due to toxic levels of oestrogen, then it cannot produce enough cells. Low RBC is what causes anemia, low WBC causes immunity supression, predisposing infections and low blood platelets can cause spontaneous internal bleeding. Once the bone marrow is damaged to a certain extent, there aren't enough vital cells produced to allow the body to function and so death is inevitable. How long a jill can remain in season and not suffer from oestrogen toxicity is not quantified, but once it happens, it's game over really and a pretty horrific way to go.

 

Inbreeding does manifest in clinical abnormalities, but it does not effect the basic biological foundations of a species.

Edited September 17, 2011 by ferret100

[Leeview 787]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Very simple, you stated leaving jills in season has no ill effects, I stated if that is true, would you have you jills tested to prove your opinion right, you agreed, I stated that if you are right, I'd pay. As you are so convinced you would be right, then why would you have to pay a penny? Seems you have no conviction behind your theory.... Ultimately you have been asked to prove you are right, and you won't back it up, just bitch about money. All talk and no trousers... If you are prepared to justify your opinions, then pm me, as I requested before.

Will not pm you, keep it here for all to read I've nothing to hide

If your so right why would nt you pay to prove it? this is about jills being left in season, which if you care to read back you 'll find only the one member that has lost a jill,whereas myself and other far more experienced ferret owners than yourself(more each day) stating they have left jills in season and have never lost one or had ill side effects Brimmer asked what these signs to look for pointing to jills having these ill side effects which you have chose to ignore

So cut to the quick here you have no jills you can have tested for these illnesses? I HAVE and will have them tested at your expense simple

Y.I.S Leeview

If, for example, you are willing to have your jills tested, and your theory is proven wrong, what then?

 

HMmm you'd be right which would enhance your credentials and 1 other member on here, myself I cant change over 50yrs of past experience of healthy, fit, working ferrets that have had no illness or side effects through being left in season

Y.I.S Leeview

So you mean that, evidence wouldn't change your opinion?

if the blood tests dont show up these levels your suggesting would it change your opinion?

Y.I.S Leeview

[shepp 2,285]

I left my two in season this year due to a botched vasectomised hob operation, which really f****d me off.

They came out of season a week or so ago and are now putting on weight.

I have to say they got a bit too skinny for my liking even though I was feeding them raw chicken and fatty lamb every day.

Not sure what I'll do next year but I think in future it's hobs only for me.

[ferret100 47]

So you aren't willing to put your money where you mouth is then?

 

NO intention of paying a penny

You asked if I would be willing to have my ferrets tested I answered YES without reservation but you pay for the tests doing

I doubt you will put your money where your mouth is though because every topic you comment on about ferrets you make an idiot of yourself with stupid replies

Y.I.S Leeview

Very simple, you stated leaving jills in season has no ill effects, I stated if that is true, would you have you jills tested to prove your opinion right, you agreed, I stated that if you are right, I'd pay. As you are so convinced you would be right, then why would you have to pay a penny? Seems you have no conviction behind your theory.... Ultimately you have been asked to prove you are right, and you won't back it up, just bitch about money. All talk and no trousers... If you are prepared to justify your opinions, then pm me, as I requested before.

Will not pm you, keep it here for all to read I've nothing to hide

If your so right why would nt you pay to prove it? this is about jills being left in season, which if you care to read back you 'll find only the one member that has lost a jill,whereas myself and other far more experienced ferret owners than yourself(more each day) stating they have left jills in season and have never lost one or had ill side effects Brimmer asked what these signs to look for pointing to jills having these ill side effects which you have chose to ignore

So cut to the quick here you have no jills you can have tested for these illnesses? I HAVE and will have them tested at your expense simple

Y.I.S Leeview

If, for example, you are willing to have your jills tested, and your theory is proven wrong, what then?

 

HMmm you'd be right which would enhance your credentials and 1 other member on here, myself I cant change over 50yrs of past experience of healthy, fit, working ferrets that have had no illness or side effects through being left in season

Y.I.S Leeview

So you mean that, evidence wouldn't change your opinion?

if the blood tests dont show up these levels your suggesting would it change your opinion?

Y.I.S Leeview

I do not believe your jills are any different than others. Leaving jills in season is playing Russian Roulette with their lives. I do not believe your jills are immune to oestrogen toxicity.

[Leeview 787]

They're not long out of season put the money up and I'll have them tested

Y.I.S Leeview

[ferret100 47]

They're not long out of season put the money up and I'll have them tested

Y.I.S Leeview

Out of season is of no use apart from a 'control' blood sample.

[f mac 40]

They're not long out of season put the money up and I'll have them tested

Y.I.S Leeview

Out of season is of no use apart from a 'control' blood sample.

why no use , the ferret is still alive ,ahh right out of season low levels in blood = ferret survived in season high levels ferret at risk lol i think we all know that by now even before you came on banging your drum , give it a rest ffs