Tomm Parr 30 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) THE ARMY FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF ONE THING - FOLLOWING ORDERS. Without that it is Impotent. Only the ones who gave orders to murder are guilty, surely? Not the blokes following them (unless there is evidence they acted off their own back). Anyway, I don't know much about that Demjanjuk feller but i know this.... My neighbour died last year aged 95. He fought the Japs in Burma in 1942-1945. He told me that he killed about 30 enemy over there and that only half were killed in proper battles or direct combat. He was ordered to kill ALL Japs and NEVER take prisoners. Half of those 30 he killed were in ambushes of sleeping or walking Japs who didn't even have time to take out their guns, not to mention the ones who fell into the 'not taking prisoners' category..... . If HE killed that many, how many did his battalion get? Is that murder too? Do me a f*****g favour. Him and a pal once killed 6 kids aged about 14 who were robbing their food stores when they were stationed in India. His officer told him to kill anyone who tried to break into the compound to steal food. So they setup 2 bren guns outside the store and 'caught' the thieves. Is that murder too? do me a f*****g favour! Its easy to blame the losers Edited May 17, 2011 by Tomm Parr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Catcher 1 639 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 THE ARMY FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF ONE THING - FOLLOWING ORDERS. Without that it is Impotent. Only the ones who gave orders to murder are guilty, surely? Not the blokes following them (unless there is evidence they acted off their own back). Anyway, I don't know much about that Demjanjuk feller but i know this.... My neighbour died last year aged 95. He fought the Japs in Burma in 1942-1945. He told me that he killed about 30 enemy over there and that only half were killed in proper battles or direct combat. He was ordered to kill ALL Japs and NEVER take prisoners. Half of those 30 he killed were in ambushes of sleeping or walking Japs who didn't even have time to take out their guns, not to mention the ones who fell into the 'not taking prisoners category...' '. If he killed that many, how many did his battalion get? Is that murder too? Do me a f*****g favour. Him and a pal once killed 6 kids aged about 14 who were robbing their food stores when they were stationed in India. His officer told him to kill anyone who tried to break into the compound to steal food. Is that murder too? do me a f*****g favour! Its easy to blame the losers Sorry cant agree following orders is no reason for murder.You should do what you feel is morally right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) THE ARMY FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF ONE THING - FOLLOWING ORDERS. Without that it is Impotent. Only the ones who gave orders to murder are guilty, surely? Not the blokes following them (unless there is evidence they acted off their own back). Anyway, I don't know much about that Demjanjuk feller but i know this.... My neighbour died last year aged 95. He fought the Japs in Burma in 1942-1945. He told me that he killed about 30 enemy over there and that only half were killed in proper battles or direct combat. He was ordered to kill ALL Japs and NEVER take prisoners. Half of those 30 he killed were in ambushes of sleeping or walking Japs who didn't even have time to take out their guns, not to mention the ones who fell into the 'not taking prisoners category...' '. If he killed that many, how many did his battalion get? Is that murder too? Do me a f*****g favour. Him and a pal once killed 6 kids aged about 14 who were robbing their food stores when they were stationed in India. His officer told him to kill anyone who tried to break into the compound to steal food. Is that murder too? do me a f*****g favour! Its easy to blame the losers Sorry cant agree following orders is no reason for murder.You should do what you feel is morally right. very easy to say that nowadays mate,didnt you once tell me,never judge a man till you have walked in his shoes?said it before war never ever brings out the good in people only the bad.i cant honestly believe you would rather take a bullet in the skull rather than follow orders no matter how distastefull you might or might not find them.if you are being honest then your a better man than most.first thing in human make up is to preserve ones own life. Edited May 17, 2011 by scothunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest john5 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Just seen this and imo its pointless. He was following orders all them years ago. It will be put down to justice, nothing more than germany trying to blame forigon nationals. And for those " families of the Victims" its nothing more than spiteful revenge. What benifit will this serve? What a shite world we live in. Banging up an old man on his death bed. Whats your opinion does he deserve what hes got or should he be allowed to live his inal years as a free man. A German court has found John Demjanjuk guilty of helping to murder more than 28,000 Jews at a Nazi death camp in World War II. He was sentenced to five years in prison, one year less than prosecutors had asked for, but will be released pending a possible appeal. Prosecutors said the Ukraine-born Demjanjuk, 91, was a guard at Sobibor camp in Nazi-occupied Poland in 1943. He denied serving as a guard, saying he was a prisoner of war and a victim too. Lawyers for Demjanjuk have said they will appeal against the conviction? "The court is convinced that the defendant... served as a guard at Sobibor from 27 March 1943 to mid-September 1943," presiding Judge Ralph Alt said. "As guard he took part in the murder of at least 28,000 people," he said. An estimated 250,000 people died in the gas chambers at Sobibor. Demjanjuk was convicted of being an accessory to the murder of the 28,060 people who were killed there while he was a guard. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12321549 why should that b*****d live out a natural life in peace , i would say he is getting off too lightly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Catcher 1 639 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 THE ARMY FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF ONE THING - FOLLOWING ORDERS. Without that it is Impotent. Only the ones who gave orders to murder are guilty, surely? Not the blokes following them (unless there is evidence they acted off their own back). Anyway, I don't know much about that Demjanjuk feller but i know this.... My neighbour died last year aged 95. He fought the Japs in Burma in 1942-1945. He told me that he killed about 30 enemy over there and that only half were killed in proper battles or direct combat. He was ordered to kill ALL Japs and NEVER take prisoners. Half of those 30 he killed were in ambushes of sleeping or walking Japs who didn't even have time to take out their guns, not to mention the ones who fell into the 'not taking prisoners category...' '. If he killed that many, how many did his battalion get? Is that murder too? Do me a f*****g favour. Him and a pal once killed 6 kids aged about 14 who were robbing their food stores when they were stationed in India. His officer told him to kill anyone who tried to break into the compound to steal food. Is that murder too? do me a f*****g favour! Its easy to blame the losers Sorry cant agree following orders is no reason for murder.You should do what you feel is morally right. very easy to say that nowadays mate,didnt you once tell me,never judge a man till you have walked in his shoes?said it before war never ever brings out the good in people only the bad.i cant honestly believe you would rather take a bullet in the skull rather than follow orders no matter how distastefull you might or might not find them.if you are being honest then your a better man than most.first thing in human make up is to preserve ones own life. Still the same.I cant agree with murder on any side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 didnt say you had to agree,hell most soldiers prob dont agree with many orders.more so back in the two world wars.my point was if you didnt carry those orders out you would in all probability be shot on the spot and your family persecuted or if you were russian your whole family would be wiped out as an enemy of the state.i know i what i would be doing.a salute and yes sir and just get on wth it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Catcher 1 639 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 THE ARMY FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF ONE THING - FOLLOWING ORDERS. Without that it is Impotent. Only the ones who gave orders to murder are guilty, surely? Not the blokes following them (unless there is evidence they acted off their own back). Anyway, I don't know much about that Demjanjuk feller but i know this.... My neighbour died last year aged 95. He fought the Japs in Burma in 1942-1945. He told me that he killed about 30 enemy over there and that only half were killed in proper battles or direct combat. He was ordered to kill ALL Japs and NEVER take prisoners. Half of those 30 he killed were in ambushes of sleeping or walking Japs who didn't even have time to take out their guns, not to mention the ones who fell into the 'not taking prisoners category...' '. If he killed that many, how many did his battalion get? Is that murder too? Do me a f*****g favour. Him and a pal once killed 6 kids aged about 14 who were robbing their food stores when they were stationed in India. His officer told him to kill anyone who tried to break into the compound to steal food. Is that murder too? do me a f*****g favour! Its easy to blame the losers Sorry cant agree following orders is no reason for murder.You should do what you feel is morally right. very easy to say that nowadays mate,didnt you once tell me,never judge a man till you have walked in his shoes?said it before war never ever brings out the good in people only the bad.i cant honestly believe you would rather take a bullet in the skull rather than follow orders no matter how distastefull you might or might not find them.if you are being honest then your a better man than most.first thing in human make up is to preserve ones own life. What i did say was you cant judge a man until you,ve walked a mile in his shoes.Still the same.I cant agree with murder on any side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomm Parr 30 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) THE ARMY FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF ONE THING - FOLLOWING ORDERS. Without that it is Impotent. Only the ones who gave orders to murder are guilty, surely? Not the blokes following them (unless there is evidence they acted off their own back). Anyway, I don't know much about that Demjanjuk feller but i know this.... My neighbour died last year aged 95. He fought the Japs in Burma in 1942-1945. He told me that he killed about 30 enemy over there and that only half were killed in proper battles or direct combat. He was ordered to kill ALL Japs and NEVER take prisoners. Half of those 30 he killed were in ambushes of sleeping or walking Japs who didn't even have time to take out their guns, not to mention the ones who fell into the 'not taking prisoners category...' '. If he killed that many, how many did his battalion get? Is that murder too? Do me a f*****g favour. Him and a pal once killed 6 kids aged about 14 who were robbing their food stores when they were stationed in India. His officer told him to kill anyone who tried to break into the compound to steal food. Is that murder too? do me a f*****g favour! Its easy to blame the losers Sorry cant agree following orders is no reason for murder.You should do what you feel is morally right. Mate, I was brought up a good Catholic boy and I agree with you entirely, i'd love to think i'd have done the moral thing in that situation. What you just posted is exactly what I said to him when he told me..... His reply: He thought the same til Japs started surrendering then blowing themselves (and his pals) up. After that, his orders and feelings changed pretty quick and they were all fair game: Awake, asleep, pointing a rifle, holding up their hands - It just wasn't worth the risk to him and his friends. Seriously, I felt ill when he told me what he'd done in the war; i viewed my shrivelled, 7st neighbour completely differently. I'd never met anyone who'd killed one person, let alone 30 odd. He was comfortable with what he did because it was the lesser of two evils in an unthinkably evil situation; better his enemy suffered and died than his friends. It's easy for us to stand in judgement but 'friends dying or non-friends dying' was literally the choice he had to make, despite how it makes us feel in our cushy modern lives. I hope that makes sense anyway, i ain't a murderous chap really, just a realist. Edited May 17, 2011 by Tomm Parr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blunderbust 4 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 If he was guilty of the crime he deserves all he got and more, no matter if he was following orders or what age he is or how long ago the crime was. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redjimp 8 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 The guy may be 91 now but 34 years ago when he first started weaseling his way out of responsibility he was only 57 None of the nazi war criminals previously convicted produced evidence of any soldiers being executed for not taking part in the holocaust , Many claimed to be just following orders and many claimed to be scared of what would happen if they didnt take part not one could produce a name and evidence to put flesh on the argument and of course the ss was a volunteer organisation in fact there is evidence that taking part in the massacres themselves was voluntary . The old bloke in question was part of the trawniki recruits , soviet pows who volunteered to turncoat so his choice wasnt about protecting his country but rather should i save my own skin and join the people who are starving and beating to death my fellow squadies Most countries have committed war crimes , if you win generally they dont get mentioned , there is no justice in that but thats life , years later the details may come out but the politics of prosecuting may not be there . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dennned 172 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 its a rocky road to go down imo.was not just germany who committed war crimes during ww11.dont see many russians,chinese,americans or even british being accused or convicted of war crimes.Just another way for the jewish lobby to keep it going.I feel what happened in the war was so long ago it hardly matters anymore. IT HARDLY MATTERS the genocide of man dont matter know matter how long a go it was find them and punish them the day we forget is the day we become in humane what about TONY BLAIR ??? he and that f*****g american started a war in the gulf ----why , because of lies on weapons of mass destruction, there were'nt any----how many of our boys died there-- yes , countless," IT HARDLY MATTERS the genocide of man dont matter know matter how long a go it was find them and punish them the day we forget is the day we become in humane your words, your views on blair then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) like i said way back in my first post.rocky road to go down.who do you blame?them that ordered the killings,who never actually killed anyone themselfs or the ones that pulled the trigger.if we start that ball game them im afraid we would have to prosecute our own people for crimes way back.i actualy dont buy into all this war crime theory.we go to war under a banner of the geneva convention.where some countrys dont even recognise it, and lets be honest here its vey rarely adhered to,it just makes the whole war thing seem justified.british and americans aswell as every force fighting in those wars and present kill of hand and casually.just the germans lost the war and they were held to book for it.aye we could go round in circles all day.im just glad the yanks and the brits have made up with the germans now and we dont go in for all that retribution stuff.it happened and all but a few who were involved are either dead of just about it.funny how the actual people fighting in the war have managed to forgive forget and move on.where as those that didnt wont let it go.i have my theory on why they do this but f**k it im bored with it now.and tbh its the same old arguments in favour of prosecuting old dying men for crimes that happened before they were even born,so it hardly affected them at all. Edited May 18, 2011 by scothunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RicW 67 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Seems like justice and mercy are both served here. Djemjanjuk was guilty of murder. We can show him the mercy that he didn't show his victims. Let him die in his time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darren lurcher 4 Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Most of the Nazis claimed to be 'following orders'.... Murder is murder. I for one am glad to see Justice done, no matter how long it has taken, or how old the murderer is. Lets not get into Nazi apologism.... well if thats the case wat about america dropping the athomic bomb or sadams soldiers he murdered thousands not sayin that i disagree with ya pal but the world was fuked up back then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mangy1983 51 Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Most of the Nazis claimed to be 'following orders'.... Murder is murder. I for one am glad to see Justice done, no matter how long it has taken, or how old the murderer is. Lets not get into Nazi apologism.... well if thats the case wat about america dropping the athomic bomb or sadams soldiers he murdered thousands not sayin that i disagree with ya pal but the world was fuked up back then The reason for the atomic bomb as f3kd as it sounds, was to save lives. The yank generals estimated that 1 million U.S soldiers alone would have been killed just landing on the shores of Japan due to how radical they were! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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