5 Nations Terrier Show (Ireiand)

[neil cooney 10,415]

Like I said Albert, yours in sport.

And I appoligise for my geographical error and nothing else.

And Albert, gundogs aint working terriers.

[AlbertJ 569]

Like I said Albert, yours in sport.

And I appoligise for my geographical error and nothing else.

And Albert, gundogs aint working terriers.

 

Neil,

 

The main difference between gundogs and working terriers is they are much harder to train! And of course I just don't claim that my dogs are good workers I am prepared to actually test them in working competition when I have one good enough - hopefully after an absence from competition (but not from work) I think I have currently one such in training!

 

I will always be loyal to people who have done a good job for me as Seamus and Matt have and make no apology for defending them or in defending the status and reputation of our shows and events which have been objectively assessed by others as the best - and of course as you can see we constantly keep improving them.

 

We have had a robust debate as I have had with many on this forum but I hold no grudges and I prefer people to speak their minds - even if they are wrong! I genuinely would like to see you at Birr in order that you can give an informed opinion on the show and what takes place.

 

The offer of a ticket for Birr stands.

 

AlbertJ

Edited August 18, 2010 by AlbertJ

[lurcher330 2,297]

i have been to the 3 game fairs that been on so far and i could'nt tell you which has been the best both teams of organisers have put on great shows and i'd say birr will be as good as any of them and as for Matt and Seamus they work their ass off when running a show and usualy with a hangover :sick: and the same with the lads at moira and ballinlough.these fairs are there to help keep our sport alive i'd like to see both bodies work together and put on more fairs to show c---t's like the green party that we here to stay and we can work together to stop them banning our sport and way of life

[cyldster 0]

That challenge remains - name me a terrierman who has done more than Seamus in or out of the ring? The silence so far has been deafening!

 

I could be wrong Albert but Id suggest Dessie Mackin may have done more in the ring over the years than Seamus!

Edited August 18, 2010 by cyldster

[Moorsman 17]

i have been to the 3 game fairs that been on so far and i could'nt tell you which has been the best both teams of organisers have put on great shows and i'd say birr will be as good as any of them and as for Matt and Seamus they work their ass off when running a show and usualy with a hangover :sick: and the same with the lads at moira and ballinlough.these fairs are there to help keep our sport alive i'd like to see both bodies work together and put on more fairs to show c---t's like the green party that we here to stay and we can work together to stop them banning our sport and way of life

[Doohan 46]

lads we were coming over should we buy some bullet proof deerhunter gear for ring side :

nah, i'll protect ya

 

She gets my vote!

[CarraghsGem 92]

lads we were coming over should we buy some bullet proof deerhunter gear for ring side :

nah, i'll protect ya

 

She gets my vote!

 

[Doohan 46]

[AlbertJ 569]

That challenge remains - name me a terrierman who has done more than Seamus in or out of the ring? The silence so far has been deafening!

 

I could be wrong Albert but Id suggest Dessie Mackin may have done more in the ring over the years than Seamus!

 

 

At last someone coming forward with an answer to the challenge. I agree that Dessie has probably done more in the ring than Seamus and with more dogs but I think Seamus would have killed many more foxes than Des. I respect both of them as guys who have not been afraid to mix it with the best dogs in the UK and prevail. But Seamus did win Stoneleigh with a working dog. Equivalent to me winning Best in Show at Crufts with a working golden.

 

 

I was glad to be able to heal the rift between them this year and Des is judging for the club at Birr.

 

Any other suggestions as to anyone else who has achieved success in international competition - I know of two others at least!

 

AlbertJ

Edited August 18, 2010 by AlbertJ

[fionn 21]

as you keep refering to working dogs dessie won every show in england with a good working dog a lakeland called tyke or turk i think .THE BEST GAME AND BIGEST WAS ADARE MANOR flushing foxes is not what id call terrier work as a hound or springer will do the same thing you say samus accounted for more foxes in ireland.WHEN THEY WERE A BOUNTY ON FOXES I KNOW 3 LADS THAT WOULD SLEEP ALL DAY AND SHOOT FOXES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AT NIGHT FOR A LIVING THEY HAD A HOLE CUT IN THE ROOF OF A VAN THEY LAMPED OUT OF THAT THEY OFTEN PUT 200 MILES A NIGHT ON VAN OFTEN GETTING 150 TO 200 A WEEK NOWS THATS FACT.point im trying to make is how can you come on here and say shamus accounted for more foxes than anyone else i know some lads not to far from shamus and they dig a hundred plus foxes a season this SHIT ABOUT MY SHOW IS BIGGER AND BETTER THAN YER SHOW A LOAD O BOLLOCKS THE TERRIER JUDGING SO FAR IN BIRR HAS BEEN A SHAM I BEGINNING TO THINK ALBERT UR ON THE WRONG FORUM THE FIRST THING WILL BE THE 5 EURO ENTRANCE A DOG ITS BEEN 3 EURO EVERY OTHER SHOW THIS YEAR HERES ANOTHER NAME FOR YA T MCGLOGHN FROM THE SHOW SEEN WON A LOT OF SHOW. BALLINLOUGH PRIZES FOR TERRIERS AND LUCHERS WERE TOP CLASS BOTH WORTH 750 EUROS EACH P.S SHAMUS WONT BE TELLING DESSIE WHAT TO PICK BECAUSE DESSIE HAS FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT SHOW TERRIER THAN SHAMUS EVER WILL

[tullyeyed 90]

the tullylish show is on sat coming, all the sh$te and promoting albert doe,s about shows, the mid antrim,and his good self, you can be sure neither will be at it. yet every club that i know attends their shows,

[AlbertJ 569]

as you keep refering to working dogs dessie won every show in england with a good working dog a lakeland called tyke or turk i think .THE BEST GAME AND BIGEST WAS ADARE MANOR flushing foxes is not what id call terrier work as a hound or springer will do the same thing you say samus accounted for more foxes in ireland.WHEN THEY WERE A BOUNTY ON FOXES I KNOW 3 LADS THAT WOULD SLEEP ALL DAY AND SHOOT FOXES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AT NIGHT FOR A LIVING THEY HAD A HOLE CUT IN THE ROOF OF A VAN THEY LAMPED OUT OF THAT THEY OFTEN PUT 200 MILES A NIGHT ON VAN OFTEN GETTING 150 TO 200 A WEEK NOWS THATS FACT.point im trying to make is how can you come on here and say shamus accounted for more foxes than anyone else i know some lads not to far from shamus and they dig a hundred plus foxes a season this SHIT ABOUT MY SHOW IS BIGGER AND BETTER THAN YER SHOW A LOAD O BOLLOCKS THE TERRIER JUDGING SO FAR IN BIRR HAS BEEN A SHAM I BEGINNING TO THINK ALBERT UR ON THE WRONG FORUM THE FIRST THING WILL BE THE 5 EURO ENTRANCE A DOG ITS BEEN 3 EURO EVERY OTHER SHOW THIS YEAR HERES ANOTHER NAME FOR YA T MCGLOGHN FROM THE SHOW SEEN WON A LOT OF SHOW. BALLINLOUGH PRIZES FOR TERRIERS AND LUCHERS WERE TOP CLASS BOTH WORTH 750 EUROS EACH P.S SHAMUS WONT BE TELLING DESSIE WHAT TO PICK BECAUSE DESSIE HAS FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT SHOW TERRIER THAN SHAMUS EVER WILL

 

 

Fionn,

 

What a diatribe and what a lot of inaccurate allegations you make because I defended our shows and the club who organise our terrier & lurcher events and had the temerity to criticise Mr Coonney.

 

Some FACTS:

 

1. Adare - We were twinned with Adare which was a good little one day show in a lovely venue that attracted about 6-10,000 people compared to well over 30,000 at Shanes this year. Ask anyone who was at Shanes this year or look for yourself at the www.fieldsports.tv programme this year or the wwww.countrysportschannel.tv last year. Adare had virtually no UK stands and virtually no gun or tackle stands - ALL fairs have moved on since then with the exception of Ballinlough. The late Lord Harrington who organised Adare and I jointly chaired a group that developed links and competitions between it and the early shows at Shanes but both groups recognised Shanes was the larger Fair and since then we have grown both attendance and stands.

Once again like your friend Cooney you make allegations which are inaccurate and based on a total lack of knowledge as I attended Adare every year whereas when was the last time you attended Shanes if ever? So the comparison you make is NOT based on FACT.

 

2. You put yourself forward as an expert on terriers and judging - what have your dogs won? what have you bred? Where have you judged? I don't claim to be an expert on terriers but I have had dogs for 50 years and instead of whingeing about how unfair judges are to working dogs, I competed and won at the highest level in Irish and UK dog shows with real working gundogs. No not just dogs I claimed worked but working dogs that won awards in working tests and gundog trials against the best in Ireland. My Ruadth prefix is respected throughout the gundog world. And I don't think even you could claim that it is easier to train a working gundog than a working terrier.

 

3. You have never worked with Seamus but yet you make allegations about how he works his terriers. Have you ever seen him dig - he is one of the best guys with a spade/shovel I have ever seen. Although he now has many other fieldsports interests including picking up with very well trained gundogs he is still in much demand all over NI for fox control and kills more foxes than most of the people who trumpet about their working dogs. I think you should talk to some of the guys you know who remember when the bounty was on in the late 70's how active Seamus was. You should also ask the guy YOU recommended to judge the Five Nations about hunting with Seamus and Gary Middleton. Also have a look at Seamus's van when you are in Birr.

 

4 I challenge you to address the simple hype that I objected to about Moira and Ballinlough. There was a claim made that there were to be 180 stands at Ballinlough. How many did you see? As I said my objection are that this sort of promotion misleads the public and they think all game and country fairs are the same. It also misleads the sort of exhibitors we want and they say they will never be back. I make it my business to deliver on everything I advertise and promote and that is why we do organise and deliver the largest and best Game and country Fairs in the respective parts of Ireland. Who says so NOT just me but all of the people I quoted to Mr Cooney. These people are experts in their fields and unlike you and Mr Cooney have actually been to the Fairs not simply made derogatory allegations. The fairs at Moira and Balinlough had good prizes for terriers and lurchers and I applaud this BUT do you not think it is a slight coincidence that it only happened since I came on this forum and made a commitment to help raise the prize money and pot for terriers & lurchers at our shows before this Moira and Ballinlugh lagged along way behind? It will be interesting to see if the prizes are repeated next year. Whereas our commitment is to continuing to grow our prize structure.

 

 

5. As I said I fully respect what Des Macken has done with his terriers and that is why we have him judging at Birr. But did you know that Des bought his first terriers from Seamus? And Des and Seamus would both tell you of the respect they have for each other although there had been a bit of a falling out. I concur with you that I have seen Terence McLaughlin win quite a bit with his dogs at various shows I have been at and from my limited knowledge of terriers I could see they were fine conditioned and presented animals and I understand he has won widely in the UK. However as I said Seamus won Stoneleigh with a working dog and that is a hard pinnacle to reach. Now you made the allegation that you could name 100 men who had done more than Seamus with their terriers in Ireland - that's two you have come up with - lets have the other 98!

 

6. The judging at Birr since I have been involved has not been a SHAM. As you know you had to admit your earlier allegations about the judging were about the shows organised there by Margaret Edghill not me.

My brother has judged Birr and he like my father did, keeps good terriers and I challenged Seamus to also judge Birr. I would be happy that both judged fairly. Judging of any dogs even with a KC standard is always going to be a matter of opinion. Terrier judging is more difficult because of a lack of a printed standard and the diversity of type so all you are ever going to get is a person's opinion. You may not like it but the answer is simple that that person does not rate your dog - does that make the judging a SHAM?

 

Unfortunately I thought the KC dog show people were 'Kennel blind, but it appears some like you with 'working' terriers may be even more so.

 

7. I came on this forum to defend our organising team and our fairs from ill informed comment. To date all the criticism I have had from you and Mr Cooney is long on misconceptions and allegations and very short on fact or personal experience. You and friend Cooney have criticised our shows and our terrier & lurcher organising team not on the basis of facts but misconceptions, rumours and quite unpleasant innuenedo. If you don't like the FACTS as I put them - too bad. BUT I really would like Mr Cooney and yourself to try to show some semblance of fairness and objectivity by making comments on the basis of having seen things for yourself and not on hearsay. Thats why both of you have been invited as my guests to Shanes and Birr to see the FACTS for yourselves.

 

That is one challenge I hope both of you will take!

 

I have to say I am disappointed by your attack on us simply because I gave a robust defence to your friend Cooney's attacks on our terrier & lurcher organisers and our fairs. I am even more disappointed that your attack is not factually based. I am prepared to debate any topic with anyone but please lets have the debate on the basis of facts and personal knowledge not wild allegations.

 

I hope to see you and Mr Cooney at Birr. Can we leave our debate until we meet face to face!

 

Albertj

Edited August 19, 2010 by AlbertJ

[AlbertJ 569]

the tullylish show is on sat coming, all the sh$te and promoting albert doe,s about shows, the mid antrim,and his good self, you can be sure neither will be at it. yet every club that i know attends their shows,

 

Tully,

 

Good to hear from you again - of course I can't be at your show or any other show on Saturday because I have Birr the following week. I did offer you and all other shows some prizes through this forum but you didn't take it up. Even at this late stage I am prepared to email you some subscriptions to the magazine for your top winners.

 

To be frank even I wasn't involved in organising Birr it is likely I would be somewhere else, I have a large range of sporting interests including gundogs, game and rough shooting, running a small shoot, stalking and target shooting so my Saturday's are precious to me. While I support terrier & lurcher showing I am not directly involved in it.

 

 

What I have given my commitment to on this forum was :

 

1. Raising the profile of the terrier , lurcher & whippet events at our Fairs.

2. Continuing to keep the events central within the fair.

3. Raising the prize fund to a level equivalent to the other competitions at the fairs.

4. Allocating a small budget this year to helping other shows.

5. Giving space in the magazine for the results of all terrier & lurcher shows.

6. Giving Irish terrier fanciers and next year lurcher fanciers the opportunity to compete with the best dogs on these islands on Irish Soil.

 

I think I have more than met these commitments.

 

If you are Birr please do come and make yourself known to me. We have had robust and frank discussions but as you are aware I prefer people to speak their mind as I do. And I do not hold that against anyone.

 

Albertj

[kegs 40]

I like most am sick of this my show is better than your show rubbish,i am new to all this web stuff but by nomeans to the field.ive ran and dug dogs for twenty years although i dont dig like i used to.i dont want to be famous but you talk of winning.ive showed my dogs and won both sides of the border and the water and ive also judged at show and gamefair.some people will know me but most people wont but im happy with that.

ive been to all irish fairs they all have there faults albert but why you feel the need to pick out another shows is beyond me when your own is far from perfect

before you spout your usual give me facts speech

1,you are the most expensive fair by far

2,you talk of prize funds and trophies ,ive been at local shows with better trophies that charge £2 PER CLASS

3,judges,how many shows have the antrim club actually got a judge that wasnt in their club

4,members of the above club,fair play to them for the job they do but they think they are the beall and endall of terriers and lurchers,i have stood round a ring and listened to them slaughter another clubs show which as they were not there really speaks volumes on their attitudes towards other hunting folk

5,you talk about numbers of foxes killed,you are missing the point the lads are making.shooting isnt an issue its the digs they were talkin about,the good old days doesnt cut it im afraid because even then they were their own biggest fans

6,your very hard on ballinlough in your posts,lets look for a moment and remember that it is only 2 year old and a new venue and as i was there i feel i can comment as i paid in.it wasnt as big as shanes but it was very well laid out and run by the lads that did it i dont know them but fair play

 

anyhow that is me getting of my soap box now. this is not a personal attack on anyone but it is just the opinion of someone who pays in through the gate

i have opinions on moira and ballinlough also but they arent on here shouting so i reserve them for another day i would leave you with a roman warning albert beware the mob for they are fickle yours in sport kegs

[AlbertJ 569]

Hi,can someone please tell me when & where the 5 Nations is going to be.Ive seen it in an advert at some time but can`t remember where it was.

 

thanks in advance.

 

Ditch,

 

You started off what has been an interesting and at times stormy debate but if nothing else it has publicised our event and from the number of personal calls and emails I have had it has stimulated massive interest. Interesting that virtually all of these have been in support of us and the concepts of the events out of several dozen calls only one has been abusive.

 

It is sad that people who criticise our event organisers and our shows do so on the basis of ignorance about our events and not personal experience. I prefer to deal in FACTS and objective assessments by people who have actually been at the events not runours or innuendo from people with aa axe to grind.

 

I apologise for the fact that your thread has been rather hijacked by people with their own agenda and if you are at Birr come and see me as I owe you at least a pint for the hassle.

 

AlbertJ