democracy and the law

[Malt 379]

Flint, you only have to look across the Atlantic to see what a true democracy looks like. The American people have their freedoms and rights protected by law over there, they cannot be easily changed or denied on the whim of a government like they can here..

 

Also, judges, police chiefs and other figures in places of high authority are held accountable to the people they serve, if they are perceived to be failing in their duty, they're out. You don't get peados and rapists given daft soft sentences over there, the public wouldn't stand for it, heads would roll.

Edited December 19, 2009 by maltenby

[Dosser 52]

Flint, you're a sceptic, which is good, but save some sceptisism for the established viewpoint.

Is it so wrong to question authority ?

 

A wise man once said "all it takes for evil to flourish, is for good men to do nothing"

 

One more: "none are so hoplessly enslaved, as those who imagine themselves to be free"

 

Im off to howl at the moon.

 

atb Doss.

[AL BUNDY 45]

maggie thatcher had more balls than this goverment put together . long live maggie.

[

 

/quote]Maggie thatcher was/is a cxxt and if she had balls i would have willingly nailed them to a cross for her

she would have kicked your c**t

[twobob 1,507]

No she tried for a year with her blue bully boys and failed

[flint67 2]

al bundy and twobob , take your "oh yes she is , oh no she isnt " thatcher pantomime somewhere else . . . Maybe start your own thread ?

[flint67 2]

yes maltenby , america is a good example of a free democracy , in some ways better than ours , in others not. Somehow though i doubt that those who think we are no longer living in a democracy here due to a global conspiracy of power would agree that the u s is a good example !! The constitution and bill of rights are great theoretical documents , but we also have laws declaring all men (and women) shall be treated equal dont forget. Freedom can be a complicated thing when represented in law , for instance to be treated equally is a fundamental part of american and british law , but when the law states that an employer cannot when choosing an employee , discriminate based on sex race colour or religion , although protecting each prospective employees right to be treated equally ,doesnt that same law remove the employers right to choose whoever he damn pleases to work for him ? . . .and yes dosser i am a sceptic , very much so ,and i have much scepticism of authority , but i am not defending the govt , i am defending our democratic system , which is so fair that it affords the right to each and every adult to take part in a free election to select the govt of this country . . . .despite the fact that most of said adult population are completely politically clueless and are led sheeplike by sensationist tabloid headlines to their personal political viewpoint. . .yes , i am an elitist !! Hahaha. However , criticise our system you want , and criticise our system i shall , abolish the lords as an unelected house and have general electionr where you put 2 crosses , 1 for the lower house , 1 for the upper house . To return to the subject of the hunting act , which was finally passed by enforcing the parliament act , quite rightly . . . I AM OPPOSED TO THE HUNTING ACT but we simply can not have the unelected house refusing to pass law which is the will of the elected house , it is undemocratic , so there you have it ,the part of our government which is undemocratic is the bit i would change (incidently citing the house of lords was the answer i was looking for when i asked why do people think we dont live in a democracy)

[twobob 1,507]

Sorry thought a forum was for anyone to join in how stupid of me

[flint67 2]

Sorry thought a forum was for anyone to join in how stupid of me

Well yes , you do have a point there , you are free to comment whenever you choose , and as i am championing democracy and freedom of speech , i shouldnt have singled the two of you out simply for making purile inane , some might say immature, comments. . .but are you not embarrassed that not only are you incapable of making constructive comments ,you also dont seem able to recognise the topic of conversation.

[AL BUNDY 45]

Sorry thought a forum was for anyone to join in how stupid of me

Well yes , you do have a point there , you are free to comment whenever you choose , and as i am championing democracy and freedom of speech , i shouldnt have singled the two of you out simply for making purile inane , some might say immature, comments. . .but are you not embarrassed that not only are you incapable of making constructive comments ,you also dont seem able to recognise the topic of conversation.

do you want a purile inane comment go f**k yourself

[keg133 0]

Relative newby to the site as a whole, but it's been great so far for advice and comments on all things hunting,so hello folks.

 

Couldn't help but add my views in here.

 

Like or hate Maggie, you knew where you stood with her, unlike any of the three main parties today.

 

The bulk of the current "New Labour" cabinet were either full card carrying members of the communist party in the 80s, or members of CND happy to roll over to our fraternal socialist allies in Russia.

 

The poll tax was an interesting one, one of the fairest systems out, like your gas, water and electric, you pay for what you use, how much fairer could it be, unlike now where if you work hard, build a conservatory or move to a house with a nice view, you get charged more.

 

What i find interesting about Ne Labour is that for years they complained about Tory policies, but haven't really changed any since they came to power....

 

Keep up the lively debate and I think the site is great!.

[mushroom 14,081]

Flint Still waiting to see your views on my last post, ke???

[RicW 67]

Flint -

Have you noticed that when Parliament bring in an Act that some people dislike, they start snivelling on about "We don't live in a democracy"?

 

Winston Churchill once said, in effect, that "Democracy is a bad method of government. The point is, the alternatives are worse."

 

Under our system of representative democracy the Hunting Act was passed democratically. On a free vote of conscience the majority of Members voted for the Bill. IF the Tories win the next election and IF they have a sufficient majority and IF they can fit the motion into Parliamentary time they will doubtless present a motion to repeal the Act. The motion will almost certainly be a free vote of conscience again. Labour and most Lib-Dem members will vote against repeal. Tory members representing rural constituencies will largely vote for repeal. Tory members representing urban constituencies will most likely consult their local party and vote according to their wishes. I for one do not think that the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

 

On the broader front, I would like to see the introduction of a written constituency, a Bill of Rights, and AV+top-up Proportional Representation. Also, abolish all constitutional power held by the throne, slash the Civil List except to the immediate Royal Family, for ceremonial purposes only, and adopt a rebublican model of government. Dream on, Ric,dream on.

 

This should put the cat amongst a few pigeons!

 

RicW (wearing my stirring hat)

[flint67 2]

We in this country have the RIGHT to peaceful protest and democratically elect the people who govern us. Agreed???

 

So why....

 

Do we have to submit a plan for a march?

 

After the truckers fuel protest did the government ban go slows on Britains roads?

 

Are we governed in statutes and acts made up by quangos whom we did not elect but were positioned so because of their sympathies or allegiances?

 

I'll answer all the questions for you

 

The plans for marches and go slows being banned are all to do with embarrassment!!! Embarrassment for the government that ensued after they were shown up by thousands of people turning up in London unannounced to say that the government had it wrong. "We cant have this happening again Gordon what shall we do?" " Och oor Tony ban them under the guise of prevention of terrorism" this is their answer BAN IT, control them, give them ID cards, take their DNA, interfere with their way of life

 

 

 

Was the lady reading out the names of war heroes quietly a terrorist? She was arrested as such

 

What about the elderly lifelong Labour supporter who heckled Tony at a conference and was hand balled out roughly and detained under the prevention of terrorism act,

 

 

 

And youre seriously suggesting that everything is peachy and democratic

Firstly , any quango made up of unelected people cant pass acts of parliament . .the govt acts on their reccomendations. With regards to your views on the organisation of marches , i think it has little to do with embarrasment , more to do with coordination and legistics , when the national front and the anti nazi league marched on the same day and it erupted into violence on the streets , whose fault was that? The general public live in london as well , are they not entitled to their freedom. Many protests are peaceful , but some are not , i would be shocked and more than a bit pissed off if the police were not taking a role in coordinating things , who is there to create the traffic diversions so that ordinary citizens can go about their lives , safety traffic . . There are many reasons these things have to be coordinated , you only have to look at some of the ideas being mooted on this site to know that someone with some organisational skills and some local knowledge is needed or total chaos reigns. (how about "lets take thousands of people to london and lets all take our dogs !") we are all opposed to the hunting act but if youre going to march in london ,the ambulance still needs to get to granny having a heart attack and mum still has to pick up the kids from school on time.

[flint67 2]

ric . . .democracy is the worst form of government , except for all the alternatives , winston churchill. And your first point is my point exactly as soon as theres a law we disagree with its oh we are not free any more , try telling that to the somalians or citizens of countless other countries which are living through horror stories. Im not to bothered about the civil list myself , im not sure how much it costs us but i would imagine its a few pence a year per person , and the constitutional powers of the sovereign really are in name only , the reforms i would most like to see are the complete overhauling of the house of lords and as you say proportional representation , not because either would advance my own political agenda but because both reforms would advance democracy in this country.

[Irish Lurcher 1,013]

Fcuked up country, glad we can hunt till we drop over here.