Fair point corky John,the pup I have just put a deposit on has parents who look like they do the job,if the pup doesn't work out the same will happen as if it was gifted to me it will be pts,I just fancied a change from the blacks.I enquired about another litter whereby the fella said I could gladly come and see the sire work and the litter sister to the bitch which is fair enough but he wanted £600 a pup and I thought that was a bit too much,I would at least want it to be able to do the backfilling as well for that price.cheers Kev