Mk Iv Fenn And Stoats.....

[EDDIE B 3,120]

By the talk on the hills North of the border over the last month, fenns are soon to be banned out right, something to do with them being in humane in the killing of stoats.. Anyone heard similar??

Cant see that happening to be honest! Especially with the MK6! I mean, if the UK lose that, you'll have sweet feck all left to trap with! Maybe this will result in full protection for stoat in the UK, or down grading the MK4 to exclude stoat, more so, than banning Fenns altogether!

 

Hmmm, wonder is there a connection between upgrading the Magnum 55 to include squirrel, and the sugestion of down grading or banning the Fenn MK4

Edited October 3, 2015 by EDDIE B

[J Darcy 5,871]

Well.....I think that they are trying to pass another trap on us, but the trtap they are trying to force into us is totally flawed by it's trigger. I will take some pics and post them soon.

 

Increasingly I think there's a bit of an 'old boys network' with the defra/trap importers. Al it all comes down to money! I'm sure it will all come out in the long run.

 

I was at the GWCT stall at the gamefair and was asking a few questions. I asked why the DOC trap had a baffle system when there are no kiwis in the UK? I also asked why it is passed for rabbits when a rabbit cannot fit through the legal sized entrance holes. the guy couldn't answer, however he did say that the entrance holes were restricted to stop HARES being accidentally caught!

 

You really couldnt make it up! And these guys are probably advising DEFRA!

[IanB 0]

Increasingly I think there's a bit of an 'old boys network' with the defra/trap importers. Al it all comes down to money! I'm sure it will all come out in the long run.

 

I agree 100% others are pushing to ban certain traps not based on if there humane or not, but how much money they can gain.

[Nicepix 5,650]

I've got a theory that this sort of thing is widespread in all walks of life. Someone identifies a genuine need for a problem to be fixed; disabled access, pesticides getting into rivers or reports of animals suffering through poor trapping practices. A department or committee are set up to deal with the issue. They sort the problem and then what? They aren't going to let it be known that they haven't any work to do so they start poking their noses into other things and gradually over the years they are forced into meddling with all sorts of minor issues that aren't really a problem just to keep themselves in a job.

[randombadger 26]

Lindsay Waddell has written about this in his column in last week's Shooting Times. He explains that the Fenn is unlikely to pass the AHITS requirements. The idea of some kind of conspiracy is amusing, but the history of this is available to anyone who can be bothered to use Google, and it's surprising that more people haven't seen this coming.

 

The EU wanted to ensure that those countries that did lots of fur trapping (and then sold the furs into the EU) did so 'humanely' and therefore they persuaded the big fur trapping countries (Canada, Russia and USA) to sign up to an agreement. Not surprisingly those countries expected the EU to implement the standards too so the EU required its member states to incorporate the agreement into their legislation. This was over a decade ago and the countries had plenty of time to put the required testing and approvals in place and to remove traps that don't meet the requirements

Canada has gone a long way down this road, but in Europe it seems to have been forgotten about, then suddenly they find themselves just a year away from the final deadline and are rushing about trying to sort it.

 

The agreement covers furbearing species whether they are trapped for fur or not and the upshot seems to be that if a trap can't meet the maximum kill time for one of the listed species then it can't be used on that species. Because of the background of the agreement, only species commonly trapped for fur are covered by the agreement, and of those the only one that is commonly and widely trapped in the UK is the stoat, hence this is why it's only stoat that is an issue.

 

This is the agreement: http://ec.europa.eu/world/agreements/downloadFile.do?fullText=yes&treatyTransId=1428

 

Here is the Fur Institute of Canada's explanation: http://www.fur.ca/files/info_sheets/Info%20Sheet%20-%20About%20AIHTS.pdf

 

Here is a link to New Zealand research on Fenn Traps http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ufaw/aw/2008/00000017/00000002/art00002 (Notice that the summary says: <I>"Changes to New Zealand animal welfare legislation in 1999 focused attention on whether this trap killed quickly and consistently and, therefore, pen tests were carried out to assess their killing performance. A guideline for testing traps was developed for the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee, and to meet the guidelines kill traps must render all ten test animals irreversibly unconscious within three minutes. Testing is stopped as soon as three animals fail the criterion. New Mk IV and MkVI and used MkVI Fenn traps were tested. With the exception of one stoat captured in a new MkVI trap, all stoats remained conscious until euthanased at 5 minutes</I>

 

If you read Lindsay Waddell's article in Shooting Times he says the AHITS criteria is the stoat must be dead in 45 seconds (as opposed to the >5 mins above), and sure enough if you can be bothered to look at the agreement (link above) it is. The NZ testing that found 5+ minutes is way short of that.

 

In Lindsay Waddell's article he makes out that the New Zealand DOC trap is the likely replacement, and as he points out, it may be a good trap but it's big, bulky and expensive.

However there are a wad of traps which have passed in Canada for Stoats (they call them weasels but it's the same species, they call weasels something else..) and some of them are fairly standard bodygrip types which would be relatively inexpensive. Given that they have passed the criteria for stoat it should be relatively simple for them to be added to a UK STAO (in as much as these things are ever 'simple'). list of traps the Canadians have passed is here: http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/pdf/Certified%20Traps%20Jan%2021,%202013%20E.pdf

 

 

Isn't Google great?

[J Darcy 5,871]

The most common trap for taking stoats (weasels) in the USA is the Victor rat trap. But can you really see that being legal in the UK? I can't.

[J Darcy 5,871]

And another thing, if theres so many stoats alive after 5 minutes in a MK6 then that tells me that the trap is not set properly. But thats JMHO.

 

The people making the rules are clueless.

 

IMO it is a backdoor route to abolishing trapping. How can you trap weasel and squirrel but avoid stoat?

 

It will all come out in the wash. :yes:

[Alimac2 321]

The most common trap for taking stoats (weasels) in the USA is the Victor rat trap. But can you really see that being legal in the UK? I can't.

Maybe not, but I can see the end of legal use of the fenn

[J Darcy 5,871]

 

The most common trap for taking stoats (weasels) in the USA is the Victor rat trap. But can you really see that being legal in the UK? I can't.

Maybe not, but I can see the end of legal use of the fenn

 

I can, at least the Mk4

[J Darcy 5,871]

On the same note, I wonder if we will be allowed to trap stoat wiht the traps that other countries say is humane? After all, whats good for the goose?

 

Or is this a case of one-sidedness?

[cock grouse 15]

 

 

Pressure on Defra over Stoat Trapping.

Fenn Traps likely to be lost.

The Agreement on International Humane Trapping Standards (AIHTS) was negotiated during the 1990s and finally signed by the UK in 1998. The EU has since ratified it, which provides a mechanism for requiring its adoption by member states. Since then, despite pressure to do so, DEFRA has failed to act on the stipulations of this agreement until now.

The consequences are that we are facing the loss of Fenn traps in July of next year because they are highly unlikely to pass the AIHTS. Traps which deliver blows to the head rather than the body are what AIHTS want to see us move to inflicting rapid death in 45 seconds. Current UK legislation to which the Fenns conform is set at 300 seconds.

 

What next?

All countryside organisations are working together on this and pressurising Defra to consider the considerable impact of this new legislation and its untimely implementation- especially in protecting upland ground nesting birds. We asked for a complete derogation for the UK, which we are very unlikely to get, or at the very least a lot more time in which to change to AIHTS-compliant traps. Defra has promised to release an eagerly awaited consultation paper regarding its intentions this Autumn. This consultation paper, when it comes, will require careful analysis and response and we are ready and waiting to give it our full attention but we can do no more than we have so far until we know Defras response to our case.

 

In the meantime, there have been two significant victories with Defra. Working with the other organisations we have successfully argued that any traps that have passed AIHTS testing in other countries will not have to go through separate testing here in the UK - although to be legally used they will still have to be adopted under UK legislation. Traps that have currently been passed here or elsewhere, such as the Good Nature A24 Trap from New Zealand and the DOC will be allowed after AIHTS implementation and there are other smaller traps, comparable to the Fenns, which are showing promise in North America. Whilst there is such great uncertainty, please do not rush out and buy anything new at this stage.

 

The second better bit of news is that originally Defra had it in mind that all users of the new traps would need to go through training, and certification. It has now been agreed this will not be required beyond having a leaflet available with the new traps explaining their operation.

 

We are all working extremely hard on this contentious issue pooling considerable expertise across the countryside organisations and inputting real world upland impacts into the process. The NGO have already issued similar advice to their upland members. We know that ideally AHITS compliant traps would be available for use in the UK by December 2015 for weathering-in and fitting to infrastructure if the size varies from the Fenns in use. However, this is unlikely to happen which is why we are fighting hard for more time to make the transition in a timely way and to minimise the financial and environmental impact on your moors.

[J Darcy 5,871]

The 'smalelr' traps are the KORO's.

 

They should allow all the other passed traps on AIHTS to be allowed int eh Ukl. It seems to me to be just aone-way scenario to clamp down further. Fair enough the MK4's but the MK6 is just ridiculous.

Does it mean that the Mk4 and Mk6 are still legal for weasels and squirrels? :hmm:

[cock grouse 15]

Yes which is bonkers! How do you stop a stoat going into a trap set for a weasel?

[J Darcy 5,871]

They should immediatly open stoat trapping up to the other legal traps, that are on AIHTS.

[OldTrapCollector 376]

They should immediatly open stoat trapping up to the other legal traps, that are on AIHTS.

But then would that also mean that the AIHTS cleared traps were also legal for vermin other than stoats?

 

What a mess this all is ...