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Experimental Blade Carbon/stainless Blade.


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#16 midnight

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 05:58 pm

I've been thinking about this pretty much all day . Because it's a pretty horrible thing to do to the steel (the welding ) I recon you keep the file as it is . Grind off the teeth of the file so it's clean steel , no sign to teeth at all .
Then cover just the sides in weld , as much as you can . Forge it flat (nothing special here just get all the surface flat) . Go over that with the flap wheel on the angle grinder ,weld again and forge flat , don't try to forge a shape or anything your just looking to remove crud/scale .
Anneal it . Cut to shape , grind to shape .
Then thermo cycle it (take it non magnetic, let it air cool x3)
Then you can harden. If your using angle grinders I wouldn't temper yet as they build up heat fast in the metal . If it's a small knife you may not beed to temper again because it's self tempering from the abgle grinder ..
I reckon you could get this looking and performing well !!

Remember if your using files as carbon they quench in hot salty water very well . I think better than oils less mess less scale and get a little harder

#17 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 08:39 pm

"Then thermo cycle it (take it non magnetic, let it air cool x3)"

 

Is that cherry red and air cool x3? Only did it once last time.

 

Will also try the hot salty water. Tried cold water once but too brittle & cracked so hence the oil.

 

Also got a couple of of HSS planer blades might give one of them a go too.

 

Thanks again Midnight for the advise.



#18 midnight

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 09:17 pm

A little more than cherry red I reckon , totally depends on the light your working in I black out my workshop and it looks lighter than cherry with no other light than the forge . Just heat until that magnet isn't attracted at all .hang it on a coat hanger and leave well alone for an hour .
Do that 3 times your good to go .
I'm not sure I'm advising you , I'm just happily following your experiment ha ha .

#19 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 10:04 pm

Well the experiment continues. Welded up a couple more tonight. One with what was left of the file but ground flat & clean this time. Welded better but still very dirty. The other is a piece of HSS planer blade which welded very well indeed, nice & clean. I welded a bit of A4 stainless rod along the back and projecting to form a tang for a handle. Worked much better clamping them down or else they distort like a banana! Plan to forge them both flat, won't get back to it for a few days though.

 

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#20 .338winmag

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 03:23 am

All though i dont know yah i'm already a fan of your work have a real country look to em an nice over all design's imo.


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#21 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 04:20 pm

Thanks mate, much appreciated.



#22 midnight

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:41 pm

You mean business this time griff !
It will be interesting to see if that tang will hold .
From what little I know . There might not be a very good reaction when heat treated but let's see !!
They look great so far .
I took a picture of a tempered blank . It looks darker than it actually is (artificial light for you)
Il try to attach it for reference but I'm in the mobile and photo bucket doesn't like linking well this way.

image_zpszydwcrfm.jpg

#23 midnight

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:52 pm

Well it worked .
Ok I have drawn on with pencil the grind lines and handle .
Light yellow is high 50's to 60 hrc .
Blue is around mid 50's so spring tempered .
If you look, all I want really hard is that cuting edge. There is a cross over point as the Ricasso/under guard becomes cutting edge . That is probably the weakest point of the blade , most vulnerable is the point or tip but that may well temper down through grinding .(can't be helped because it becomes so fine ) anyway every other part is now able to give and steel under little stress . As the temper bleeds back into the handle it doesn't matter to much as by the time it reaches the final 3rd of the handle the steel is still annealed .
A shock and bend resistant blade with fine grain structure throughout . Nice hard but unstressed cutting edge .
Of course it needs to be 100% truly hardened in the first place but with the right quench (thinnest oil you can find) and the magnet test before quench it's prety much a cert you will get it right .

Hope it helps ?
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#24 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 09:18 pm

Thanks midnight, that is very useful indeed. You recon i should use the same method of temper on the HSS blade? If it works i am hoping it will be my "fishing knife" spoken of on the other thread.


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#25 sussex

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 10:22 am

Griff , always enjoy your threads ...cheers :thumbs:


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#26 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 10:53 am

Griff , always enjoy your threads ...cheers :thumbs:

Cheers mate, nice that there is folk that like to make stuff, and enjoy other folks projects. Used to be everyone bodged along with what they had and made it if they didn't have it, now seems if its broke.....or even if it not they throw it out and buy the latest....which probably isn't as good a quality at the one they just dumped. Suits me though, nothing better than...... a rummage in the scrap skip at the recycling center....and coming up with a treasure. :laugh:


Edited by GruffaloGriff, 14 March 2015 - 10:54 am.

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#27 midnight

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 12:29 pm

Thanks midnight, that is very useful indeed. You recon i should use the same method of temper on the HSS blade? If it works i am hoping it will be my "fishing knife" spoken of on the other thread.

Well that type of temper is more "blade smith" than "knife maker" so it's up to you . There is a third option .
Knife makers (usually working from ground flat stock steel ) mostly heat treat and temper the Entire blade to the same hardness , I do the same its pretty standard stuff .
There is differential tempering like photoed .
And there is a the last option ...
Edge quenched . This way (looking at my picture) just the portion marked in pencil (cutting edge) and slightly above it is heated . Then just that portion is dipped in a tray of oil. All you do then is temper down the cutting edge , everything else is annealed or untreated .
Do the version most comfortable to you .
It really only matters with things like bushcraft knives that will be hammered on and used to pry things open . If you do that with edge quenched you would bend it very easily .
But for cutting nice soft fish flesh and bait . Edge quenched of differential temper would be fine .

Hey I got confirmation on heat treating for the super steel , stainless RW34 and the Damascus version to . It's expensive as hell £200 a kilo but I'm really excited it's now a real option as I get asked a lot about it !

#28 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 12:56 pm

Thanks midnight, probably go for the temper as per your photo, that is kind of what i have done in the past except blue rather than bronze, if i read more i would probably get on better, but i always jump in at the deep end and just get on and make something then read how to do it after. :hmm:

 

"Hey I got confirmation on heat treating for the super steel , stainless RW34 and the Damascus version to . It's expensive as hell £200 a kilo but I'm really excited it's now a real option as I get asked a lot about it !"

 

Keep me informed on developments with this stuff, if you were definitely getting an order I for one would be happy to pre-pay for a blank to off-set the initial  lay-out you would have to make, others might do the same, your have a good rep on here so wouldn't bother me doing it that way. :thumbs:


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#29 midnight

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 02:56 pm

Thanks griff ! I'm the same by nature ( severe dyslexia ) my mind wants to deconstruct it first see how it was done then repeat) worked great in the butchery and stonemasonry but would have been expensive with the knives ha ha .

The suggestion you make might be a good answer to the cost issue , I can get a pretty wide range of thickness and width , manny patterns etc if folks wanted that , it would allow me to puta bigger order together and get more for all our money !!
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#30 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 04:20 pm

Yep dyslexia here too. If it wasn't for spell check i would have some wild spelling! Funny often those who are good with their hands have dyslexia.

 

Count me in if you are placing an order. Say whatever i would get for £25?






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