the difference between a fox set and a badger?

[Guest jt750]

claw marks, foot prints, stinks diffrently, loads of kick back(soil) around the entrance.....but remember foxes can inhabit old badger sets they can also sometimes live together so be careful...good luck with it

 

edited to say ive learned from gamekeepers, before hand i wouldnt have had a clue...you got to start somewere dont you?

you av learned from gamekeepers you will av learned feck all then good terriermen arnt gamekeepers

yep gamekeepers no nothing about pest control despite it being a large part of there job

 

And you know this because in your vast experience you've had dealings with a lot of people in your time .. How old are you ?

 

Sorry derbylad your threads going downhill from an innocent question to kids posting on other subjects they know eff all about

[Guest MickyB]

claw marks, foot prints, stinks diffrently, loads of kick back(soil) around the entrance.....but remember foxes can inhabit old badger sets they can also sometimes live together so be careful...good luck with it

 

edited to say ive learned from gamekeepers, before hand i wouldnt have had a clue...you got to start somewere dont you?

you av learned from gamekeepers you will av learned feck all then good terriermen arnt gamekeepers

yep gamekeepers no nothing about pest control despite it being a large part of there job

 

And you know this because in your vast experience you've had dealings with a lot of people in your time .. How old are you ?

 

Sorry derbylad your threads going downhill from an innocent question to kids posting on other subjects they know eff all about

... she was just making a point, and a fair enough one at that. Although digger63 has some very valid points, his comment that gamekeepers and hunt terriermen know feck all is fairly brash to say the least... yes there arent many keepers about that are good terriermen thats true, but there are some, and some very good ones too. As for hunt terriermen, i know more good ones than bad ones.

[digger63 3]

jt, i think youve mis-read her post[or maybe i have ]it reads as sarcasm to me? if youre having a pop in any way at P3161 your gonna look very stupid.

 

 

MickeyB,

I didn't say all keepers/hunt terrier men,i said most and not all,i know some very good ones myself,but both have a fair percentage that are clowns,keepers dont have the time these days,thats one of the reasons i had a lot of ground to work,as for hunt terrier men there's a big difference [i suspect you know this] between following a pack ussually over the same ground for years,and freelanceing,you can dig a hell of a lot of fox and not really understand them,why? because you dont have to.

A bit like the old days,people made reputations digging Badger, hard graft but not skillfull imo,not hard to breed the right dogs either size not being an issue.

Just opinions i wouldn't dream of naming names alive or dead,if i want an argument im married.

[Guest MickyB]

jt, i think youve mis-read her post[or maybe i have ]it reads as sarcasm to me? if youre having a pop in any way at P3161 your gonna look very stupid.

 

 

MickeyB,

I didn't say all keepers/hunt terrier men,i said most and not all,i know some very good ones myself,but both have a fair percentage that are clowns,keepers dont have the time these days,thats one of the reasons i had a lot of ground to work,as for hunt terrier men there's a big difference [i suspect you know this] between following a pack ussually over the same ground for years,and freelanceing,you can dig a hell of a lot of fox and not really understand them,why? because you dont have to.

A bit like the old days,people made reputations digging Badger, hard graft but not skillfull imo,not hard to breed the right dogs either size not being an issue.

Just opinions i wouldn't dream of naming names alive or dead,if i want an argument im married.

fair play mate

[Guest jt750]

If i misread / misunderstood then i'm sorry ... i'm an old un now and when i first started it was with a keeper who did all his own ferret and terrier work on a small shoot including badgers in the late 60's and it was hard going then (no locators just baying dogs). I then followed a hunt terrier pack also in my mid teens after 73 and these guys knew their job and if they didn't they were gone ..my uncle also moved back to the area and took a keepers job ..he never kept terriers but he knew his earth work ..I learnt a lot of my fieldcraft off these 2 men even if i never got into terrier work seriously but running dogs instaed. I just don't like labels on a group of people there's goood and bad in all areas wether terriers lurchers or birds of prey

Edited May 1, 2009 by jt750

[desertdog 149]

my best advice to any young terrier man is get yourself some permission to work your dog,learn about your ground and join a terrier club. ie fmwtc or nwtf.

[digger63 3]

If i misread / misunderstood then i'm sorry ... i'm an old un now and when i first started it was with a keeper who did all his own ferret and terrier work on a small shoot including badgers in the late 60's and it was hard going then (no locators just baying dogs). I then followed a hunt terrier pack also in my mid teens after 73 and these guys knew their job and if they didn't they were gone ..my uncle also moved back to the area and took a keepers job ..he never kept terriers but he knew his earth work ..I learnt a lot of my fieldcraft off these 2 men even if i never got into terrier work seriously but running dogs instaed. I just don't like labels on a group of people there's goood and bad in all areas wether terriers lurchers or birds of prey

 

jt,

 

I know a lot of keepers do some digging,but more use a rifle these days cant blame them with the law being like it is and i rekon the fox population has at least doubled in my area in the last 10 years.

Im no spring chicken myself mate,maybe we should start a grumpy old b.....s thread,and have a good moan on it,atb steve.

[moosedog 2]

just bear in mind everyone without the hunt terrier men of old you wouldnt have any good working lines of terrier,cant comment on the rest of the country but lots of good terrier where im from you can trace there bloodline back to the hunt and the patterdale/Fell and lakeland would never of existed atb

 

Dont want to hog the thread but thats an interesting post,imo most of the threadbare fell packs couldn't afford full time terrier men and some of the very best dogs were created by tennant farmers,road workers,school teachers and god knows who,not full time terrier men,my own stock was from S Wilkinson,and could be traced back to A Heinamann's dogs,he wasn't exactly using them for fox though was he?

yeah your right digger but my own local hunt Blencathra could up to Willie Irvings day anyway and he bred and sent dogs to most of the fell packs and at the end of the season they went to tenant farmers to be walked out and bred from but always with the permission of the hunt. so the tennant farmers bred them but they were for the hunt, when i was a kid the guy down the road from me used to walk out some of the hunt terriers and bred some great working dogs whos bloodlines still run today and he was a car sales man but the dogs belonged to the hunt atb

[digger63 3]

moosedog ive got nothing but respect for the fell packs/terrier men,i think its fair to say their dogs have had more influence on terrier work than any other type,after having them and working them how could you not be impressed? like i said earlier i dont want to point anyone out but i wasn't looking in that direction.

atb steve.

[moosedog 2]

moosedog ive got nothing but respect for the fell packs/terrier men,i think its fair to say their dogs have had more influence on terrier work than any other type,after having them and working them how could you not be impressed? like i said earlier i dont want to point anyone out but i wasn't looking in that direction.

atb steve.

hey digger we are having a good old fashioned polite debate and its something that is very rare on this site. Thankyou and enjoy atb Cris

[Guest miller1989]

how can you tell what set it is if theres no signs of fox hair etc? is there anyway of telling its a fox set befor you put the dog to ground

cheers

 

i like to kown aswell atb

 

keano

 

 

i think this thread has proved unless you see the fox go down theres no 100% that its a fox down there untill you dig to it like i said think ill get rid and just keep running dogs less hassle

 

WHAT? People own terriers and lurchers that will mark a fox to ground 120% ive never ever been out when a lurcher or a terrier that has ever not marked a fox,and mr fox never being there. If the dog marks and its a solid worker it will let you know if its home end of story!

[gonetoearth 5,144]

just bear in mind everyone without the hunt terrier men of old you wouldnt have any good working lines of terrier,cant comment on the rest of the country but lots of good terrier where im from you can trace there bloodline back to the hunt and the patterdale/Fell and lakeland would never of existed atb

 

Dont want to hog the thread but thats an interesting post,imo most of the threadbare fell packs couldn't afford full time terrier men and some of the very best dogs were created by tennant farmers,road workers,school teachers and god knows who,not full time terrier men,my own stock was from S Wilkinson,and could be traced back to A Heinamann's dogs,he wasn't exactly using them for fox though was he?

[Squirrel_Basher 17,102]

Before this gets closed as im sure it will heres the answer to the original question .For those that need to know the signs of what to look for here ,they are -

Badgers will draw fresh earth from a sette all year round in their continuous habit of enlargement whereas the fox will ONLY dig to create a cubbing den in early spring .The sight of a large ,fresh spoil heap in winter is a sure sign of badger .

Bedding may be in or near the mouth of a sette as well as a clear drag line to and from the sette .Foxes use no bedding whatsoever .

A clear ,very well trodden path ,TO ,FROM AND ACROSS the sette indicates a badger may be using it .

Scratch marks on nearby trees ,usually those leant at 45degrees and about 2 foot up are another sign of badger use .

Latrines either on or near the sette will indicate badgers in the area .

Lastly and the most telling sign is that of pad marks ,either in or out of any of the holes .Badger pads are 5 toed in all ,spread in a half moon at the front of the mark ,with a back pad at the rear .Fox pads are similar to a dog with 4 toes but a bit slimmer than a terriers .

BUT and heres the big but too-The law states that a place where a badger lives is classed as a badger sette and that includes drains ,bales and artificial earths .Disturbing any of these where a badger is in residence is an offense so be very careful to establish what you are putting your dog to .

Disused badger settes are used by fox but old sign of badger will still get you arrested .Be very careful and if in doubt move on .

[digger63 3]

moosedog ive got nothing but respect for the fell packs/terrier men,i think its fair to say their dogs have had more influence on terrier work than any other type,after having them and working them how could you not be impressed? like i said earlier i dont want to point anyone out but i wasn't looking in that direction.

atb steve.

hey digger we are having a good old fashioned polite debate and its something that is very rare on this site. Thankyou and enjoy atb Cris

 

Yes mate the thread seems to have taken a turn for the better,i think half the time arguments start over misunderstandings.

 

Wish i could post a few pics of the dog i had from S.W'S line,but i dont know how because they obviously arent digital,learnt a lot from that dog and bred some good terriers out of him,sadly there's none of the blood left round here or none thats not really diluted,makes me chukle when people mention "staying" if you put him in you had to dig him out end of,sometimes he was still going at it after a couple of days,fekin nightmare for my uncles and older mates,suffice to say i got the odd "thick ear" for not being careful about the spots i worked.atb steve.

[Guest busterdog]

Foxdropper, totally agree with everything you say, apart from the spoil heap in winter? surely thats when charlie cleans out his earth.

The other good way of knowing is that a badger drags his bedding and soil back to the mouth of the hole with his front feet,all gathered up, that is why you get a well worn grove in the middle of the turn out, a fox throws his soil back with his front and back legs which gives the turn out a more scattered look ,where as badgers heap the turn out not scatter.

In my experience badgers go more dormant in winter and dont generally do to much cleaning out,they do do it but not to much.

Edited May 2, 2009 by busterdog