moxy 617 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Nowhere did I say you are stupid Deker, nor would I as I don't know you. But I'm beginning to think you're a bit too touchy and looking for confrontation. Are you ginger? Are you small or are you both. Im small and ginger, do you wanna do Quote Link to post
DaveK 0 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Nowhere did I say you are stupid Deker, nor would I as I don't know you. But I'm beginning to think you're a bit too touchy and looking for confrontation. Are you ginger? Are you small or are you both. Im small and ginger, do you wanna do Yeah but you're from gods country so that's different :angel: Quote Link to post
moxy 617 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Nowhere did I say you are stupid Deker, nor would I as I don't know you. But I'm beginning to think you're a bit too touchy and looking for confrontation. Are you ginger? Are you small or are you both. Im small and ginger, do you wanna do Yeah but you're from gods country so that's different :angel: Oh bugger, and i was feeling all confrontational aswell Quote Link to post
DaveK 0 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) Nowhere did I say you are stupid Deker, nor would I as I don't know you. But I'm beginning to think you're a bit too touchy and looking for confrontation. Are you ginger? Are you small or are you both. Im small and ginger, do you wanna do Yeah but you're from gods country so that's different :angel: Oh bugger, and i was feeling all confrontational aswell So if thy int from Wakey then :boxing: Edited July 8, 2008 by DaveK Quote Link to post
Mr_Logic 5 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 bloody northerners ... :-) Quote Link to post
CharlieT 32 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Marauding or not, the word does not matter, what matters is that under the act those that qualify as occupiers of land may kill deer out of season under the terms of the act without a license which is what I believe DaveK was talking about. I must apologise if marauding is no longer the adjective used to describe such deer, it always used to be and I presumed it still was. Until the recent amendments to the act it was virtually impossible to get a license for night shooting. Now that the rules have been rewritten somewhat I wonder if it will be somewhat easier to obtain one. Quote Link to post
DaveK 0 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 (edited) Marauding or not, the word does not matter, what matters is that under the act those that qualify as occupiers of land may kill deer out of season under the terms of the act without a license which is what I believe DaveK was talking about. I must apologise if marauding is no longer the adjective used to describe such deer, it always used to be and I presumed it still was. Until the recent amendments to the act it was virtually impossible to get a license for night shooting. Now that the rules have been rewritten somewhat I wonder if it will be somewhat easier to obtain one. Not so sure about the night shooting where deer are concerned. Even with a good solid kill shot there's a chance of losing the beast if it runs. So without a dog, and I wouldn't take a dog out at night if shooting, you're really limited where finding it is concerned. Each to his own I suppose but I'd not be very keen. Edited July 9, 2008 by DaveK Quote Link to post
markbivvy 6 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I wouldn't take a dog out at night ha, heard you have been seen with some right munters. Quote Link to post
DaveK 0 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I wouldn't take a dog out at nightha, heard you have been seen with some right munters. That was you they saw me with Claude. :crazy: :crazy: :oops: Quote Link to post
Guest JohnGalway Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I wouldn't take a dog out at nightha, heard you have been seen with some right munters. Nice one Claude, eh Mark Quote Link to post
Deker 3,453 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 (edited) To save you all reading the whole Order I have extracted this part for you...it is the bit that says you need a licence to shoot deer out of season......I take it you are all happy to accept you can now shoot CWD and Muntjac with .22CF...well the same order introduced licences as well!!!!! Believe what you like but if you listen to the BASC and are caught you are in trouble!! To help you even more the really important bit is highlighted in RED.....also covers taking them at night etc.... You will perhaps note this is a "Statutary Instrument" and carries the force of law.....it is no a handout from the BASC!! Statutory Instruments 2007 No. 2183 regulatory reform, england and wales ANIMALS, ENGLAND AND WALES DEER The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007 Made 25th July 2007 Coming into force 1st October 2007 Licences 4.—(1) Section 8 of the 1991 Act (exceptions for persons licensed by Natural England or the Countryside Council for Wales)(7) is amended as follows. (2) For the heading, substitute “Exceptions for licensed personsâ€. (3) After subsection (3), insert— “(3A) A licence may be granted to any person by— (a) Natural England, in relation to any land in England, or ( the Welsh Ministers, in relation to any land in Wales, exempting that person from section 2 above in relation to any species and description of deer. (3B) A licence may be granted under subsection (3A) above for the purpose of— (a) preserving public health or public safety, or ( conserving the natural heritage. (3C) Before granting a licence under subsection (3A) above in relation to any land the licensor must be satisfied that— (a) in the case of a licence required for the purpose of preserving public health or public safety, there is a serious risk of deer of the species and description to which the application relates putting public health or public safety at risk; ( in the case of a licence required for the purpose of conserving the natural heritage, there is a serious risk of deer of the species and description to which the application relates causing deterioration of the natural heritage; © to achieve the purpose in question there is no satisfactory alternative to taking and killing the deer of the species and description to which the application relates during the close season prescribed by Schedule 1 to this Act; (d) the applicant has a right of entry to the land for the purpose of taking or killing deer under the licence; and (e) if the licence is to relate to red, roe or fallow deer, the taking or killing to be authorised by the licence will not compromise the ability of that species to maintain the population of deer in question on a long-term basis within its natural range in the numbers which exist after the taking or killing has taken place. (3D) A licence may be granted to any person by— (a) Natural England in relation to any land in England, or ( the Welsh Ministers, in relation to any land in Wales, exempting that person from section 3 above in relation to any species and description of deer. (3E) A licence may be granted under subsection (3D) above for the purpose of— (a) preserving public health or public safety, ( conserving the natural heritage, or © preventing serious damage to property. (3F) Before granting a licence under subsection (3D) above in relation to any land the licensor must be satisfied that— (a) in the case of a licence required for the purpose of preserving public health or public safety, there is a serious risk of deer of the species and description to which the application relates putting public health or public safety at risk; ( in the case of a licence required for the purpose of conserving the natural heritage, there is a serious risk of deer of the species and description to which the application relates causing deterioration of the natural heritage; © in the case of a licence required for the purpose of preventing serious damage to property, property on the land has been seriously damaged in the year preceding the licence application; (d) to achieve the purpose in question there is no satisfactory alternative to taking and killing the deer of the species and description to which the application relates between the expiry of the first hour after sunset and the beginning of the last hour before sunrise; (e) the applicant has a right of entry to the land for the purpose of taking or killing deer under the licence; and (f) if the licence is to relate to red, roe or fallow deer, the taking or killing to be authorised by the licence will not compromise the ability of that species to maintain the population of deer in question on a long-term basis within its natural range in the numbers which exist after the taking or killing has taken place. (3G) A licence under subsection (3A) or (3D) above must state— (a) the purpose for which it is granted; ( the land to which it relates; © the species and descriptions of deer to which it relates; (d) the method by which the licensee may take or kill deer; and (e) the period, not exceeding two years, for which it is valid. (3H) Natural England and the Welsh Ministers may charge fees for the consideration of applications for licences under subsections (3A) and (3D) above.â€. (4) In subsection (4)— (a) for the words from “subsection (1)†to “Walesâ€, substitute “this section may be revoked at any time by the licensorâ€; and ( for “either of those subsectionsâ€, substitute “this sectionâ€. (5) In subsection (5), for “subsection (1) or subsection (2) aboveâ€, substitute “this sectionâ€. (6) At the end, add— “(6) In this section, “the natural heritage†means flora and fauna, geological or physiographical features or natural beauty and amenity of the countryside.â€. Edited July 9, 2008 by Deker Quote Link to post
CharlieT 32 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Deker I am sorry to contradict you but we were I believe talking about the shooting of deer out of season for the protection of crops. I reiterate my earlier post, occupiers and those that qualify under this section (which I believe is section 7 but I may be wrong because I have not bothered to look it up) DO NOT need a license to shoot deer out of season. The 2007 Regulatory Reform you quote makes specific amendments and additions to the 1991 deer act and if you read it thoroughly you will notice that it does not amend the section in the 1991 act giving occupiers the right to shoot deer out of season without a license. I do so and as long as it is legal will continue to do so, obviously only when it is necessary. As I pointed out in an earlier post I even have 12 bore slugs conditioned on my fac for such specific use namely "the 12 bore slug ammunition may also be used for the shooting of marauding deer as allowed by the deer act 1991". You are of course quite correct that a license is required for shooting them out of season to protect public health or natural heritage but NOT for the circumstances I was discussing and no amount of red ink will prove me wrong. May I suggest you read the act in question or perhaps speak to Natural England or the BDS if you refuse to believe me. Quote Link to post
FJager 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 What the F**k is a marauding deer??????..... Where do you get off..... "Catch up man" [ Maybe if you weren't so aggressive in replying to posts you'd get a more polite response. Now go and find it for yourself :wankerzo4: I asked BASC and it still applies apparently But making the assumption that you're the expert in these matters and not the BASC deer department, I'll bow to your superior knowledge. Laugh my f#cking Arse Off, give up Dave, good reply, but Deker knows all things firearms, apparently and WILL argue for the sake of it simply because he obviously has way too much time on his hands. Quote Link to post
dicehorn 38 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Slightly off/on this topic regarding marauding deer as referred to in this thread. Been stalking 30+ years - never regarded Roe deer as marauding. Assume everyone here knows the difference between grazing and browsing?? Red and fallow could be regarded as marauding because they are grazers. Question is - what sort of crops are these non herd 'marauding' roe deer munching their way through that is causing this poor farmer's income to dwindle - is it raspberry bushes?? Peter Quote Link to post
Deker 3,453 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) Deker I am sorry to contradict you but we were I believe talking about the shooting of deer out of season for the protection of crops. I reiterate my earlier post, occupiers and those that qualify under this section (which I believe is section 7 but I may be wrong because I have not bothered to look it up) DO NOT need a license to shoot deer out of season. The 2007 Regulatory Reform you quote makes specific amendments and additions to the 1991 deer act and if you read it thoroughly you will notice that it does not amend the section in the 1991 act giving occupiers the right to shoot deer out of season without a license. I do so and as long as it is legal will continue to do so, obviously only when it is necessary. As I pointed out in an earlier post I even have 12 bore slugs conditioned on my fac for such specific use namely "the 12 bore slug ammunition may also be used for the shooting of marauding deer as allowed by the deer act 1991". You are of course quite correct that a license is required for shooting them out of season to protect public health or natural heritage but NOT for the circumstances I was discussing and no amount of red ink will prove me wrong. May I suggest you read the act in question or perhaps speak to Natural England or the BDS if you refuse to believe me. Guys ...I really don't give a fig if you want to ignore the regulations, but burrying your head in the sand and pretending they don't exist is nieve! You need a licence...and you will have a tough job getting one! I am also far more familier with the 1991 Act than most, and was very happy with the previous regulations with regard "out of season control". The BDS would not allow you to shoot deer at all if they had their own way, and Natural England are the most disorganised out of touch organisation you would ever want to deal with.... BUT...their repsonse some months back when I discussed shooting deer out of season was ...you cannot shoot them simply because you see them eating crops...you need to proove damage and GET A LICENCE!!! I will be very happy for someone to show me I am wrong but both the BASC (in writing) and Natural England (verbally) have commented that a licence IS required for crop damage shooting out of season! I have printed the application below for you...and highlighted the bit about damage to agricultural or horticultural crops, damage to forestry Deer Act 1991 (as amended) Application for a licence to kill or take deer out of season or at night ·1 Please complete this application form using dark ink and BLOCK CAPITALS. ·2 All questions must be answered. Failure to provide adequate information will delay the processing of your application. ·3 The completed and signed application should be sent to Natural England at the address given opposite. ·4 Natural England will normally aim to decide whether a licence should be issued within 30 working days of receipt of the application and any accompanying information. ·5 If you experience any problems filling in this form, please contact the Wildlife Licensing Unit (details opposite). Wildlife Licensing Unit Natural England Burghill Road, Westbury-on-Trym Bristol BS10 6NJ T. 0845 601 4523 F. 0845 601 3438 E. wildlife@ naturalengland.org.uk The Deer Act 1991 (as amended) prohibits or controls the taking or killing of deer at certain times of the year, at night and by certain methods. It makes certain exceptions for occupiers of land where deer are found and allows action to be taken for the purpose of preventing suffering or in accordance with a Notice served under Section 98 of the Agriculture Act 1947. The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007 introduced a number of new licensing provisions from 1st October 2007. Under Section 8 of the Deer Act 1991(as amended), Natural England has the power to grant licences as follows: To permit the taking or killing of deer during the relevant close season for the purpose of: Preserving public health or public safety Conserving the natural heritage To permit the taking or killing of deer at night for the purpose of: Preserving public health or public safety Conserving the natural heritage Preventing serious damage to property A licence may only be issued under these provisions if: There is a serious risk of deer causing the problem concerned and, to achieve the purpose in question, there is no satisfactory alternative to taking or killing the deer in the close season or at night as appropriate. In addition, the licensee must have a right of entry to the land for the purpose of taking or killing deer under a licence and, in the case of a licence to take or kill deer at night to prevent serious damage to property, serious damage must have been caused in the year preceding the application. The licensing provisions include a safeguard to protect the conservation status of Red, Roe and Fallow deer, to avoid reducing the population of the species concerned, within its natural range, to a level at which it cannot maintain itself in the long-term. 1. Personal Details Title (e.g. Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms) Forename Surname Address County Postcode Daytime telephone no. (incl. national dialing code) Mobile no. Fax no. Email address If you would like us to acknowledge receipt of this application, please tick ONE of the following boxes to indicate your preferred method: Email Telephone Fax Letter 2. Previous Applications (a) Have you previously held a licence under the Deer Act 1991? If No please go to question 3 below Yes No ( Have any of your previous licences covered the same species, activities and purpose as this licence application? Yes No If No, please go to question 3 If Yes, please give your most recent licence number (located at the top of the licence) © Have you changed your address since your last licence was issued? Yes No If yes, please supply the address on your last licence Address County Postcode 3. Location of proposed licensed action (a) Please give the name and full postal address of the land or property where the problem is occurring. Address County Postcode ( Please give the precise location of where licensed action is proposed including the OS Grid Ref. If appropriate, please provide field numbers/names, compartment numbers etc. © Is this land covered by a Natural England management agreement? Yes No If Yes, please give the agreement reference number NOTE. For new applications please attach a map of a suitable scale indicating where the problem is occurring and where action is proposed. 4. Licences will normally only be granted to the owner or occupier or a person authorised by the owner or occupier (a) Are you the owner or occupier of the land referred to in Question 3? Yes No ( If no give the position you hold in relation to this land N.B. Where you are not the owner or occupier you should attach the owner or occupier’s written consent for you to make this application (please use the format of the proforma at page 7). 5. Conservation considerations Where licensed action is proposed on or near to a protected site such as a National Nature Reserve (NNR), Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI), Special Protection Area (SPA), Special Area of Conservation (SAC) or Ramsar site, we have to take the conservation interest of that site into account when processing your application. Is the site identified at Question 4 in an area covered by, or near to, a protected site e.g. NNR, SSSI, SAC, SPA, Ramsar? Yes No If it is on a protected site, have you consulted with your local Natural England office for advice on the implications of your application? Yes No In the box below please give either the outcome of your consultations or the reason why you have not consulted. Please enclose any relevant correspondence. 6. Nature of the problem (a) Please specify species of deer causing, or likely to be causing, the problem. Fallow Deer (Dama dama) Red Deer (Cervus elaphus) Roe Deer (Capreolus capreolus) Sika Deer (Cervus nippon) Chinese Water Deer (Hydropotes inermis) Muntjac Deer (Muntiacus reevesi) ( Please provide details on the nature and extent of the problem (including any historical evidence); e.g. damage to agricultural or horticultural crops, damage to forestry, hazard to public health or safety, damage to conservation areas. Continue on a separate sheet or attach supporting information if appropriate. © Time of year when the problem occurs Note: For applications to night shoot to prevent serious damage to property, serious damage must have been caused in the year preceding the application. (d) Please provide details on the number and behaviour of the deer causing the problem and where they are predominantly taking cover. (e) Are there any other factors contributing to the problem? Yes No If YES, please give details and state what (if any) action has been taken. 7. Preventative measures taken (a) Have measures been taken to prevent the problems outlined at Question 6? Yes No If YES, provide details of the methods already employed (e.g. culling during the open season, fencing, deterrents, proofing, exercising the ‘farmer’s defence’ under Section 7 of the Deer Act 1991 within the close season) and explain why they are not considered sufficient to resolve the problem. If NO, please explain why preventative measures have not been taken. ( Is there / are you aware of a Deer Management Group in the area? Yes No © Have you sought advice from the Deer Initiative or any other body? Yes No If Yes to ( or © give details 8. Proposed licence action (a) Nature of the proposed action e.g. Shooting during the close season or at night ( Period of proposed action (which months) 9. Deer management qualifications / Experience What deer management qualifications and/or experience do you possess e.g. DSC level 1 & 2 10. Authority to act under licence Up to four (4) people (including the licensee) may normally be authorised to kill deer under a licence. It is your responsibility to ensure that you have the appropriate permissions to use firearms on the licensed site. Please list below the names, contact telephone numbers and deer management qualifications/experience of all persons other than the applicant who propose to take action under a licence if one is issued (a maximum of four if the licensee is not taking action). No-one under the age of 18 years may be authorised to use firearms by the licensee without specific written permission from Natural England. The licensee and anyone acting under the licence are responsible for their actions and for complying with the licence conditions. Any proposed changes to this list must be notified in writing to Natural England at the address at the top of this form. Name of authorised person Contact telephone no. Qualifications / Experience 11. Declarations Have you, or any persons named in this form by you, been convicted of any wildlife-related or animal welfare offence? Yes No If YES, please give details including dates Using and sharing your information The data controller is Natural England, Northminster House, Peterborough, PE1 1UA. Your information will be stored and processed in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. This Act gives you, as an individual, the right to know what data we hold on you, how we use it, with whom we share it and for it to be accurate. It will be used for processing your application. Natural England or its appointed agents may use the name, address and other details on your application form to contact you in connection with occasional customer research aimed at improving the services that Natural England provides to you. We will respect personal privacy, whilst complying with access to information requests to the extent necessary to enable Natural England to comply with its statutory obligations under the Environmental Information Regulations 2004, and the Freedom of Information Act 2000. If you believe that any of the information we hold concerning you is incorrect or out of date, please provide us with the accurate information in writing together with supporting evidence (if appropriate). You should address your correspondence to: Natural England, Wildlife Licensing Unit, Northminster House, Peterborough, PE1 1UA. Tel. 01733 455000; Fax. 01733 455536; Email: wildlife@naturalengland.org.uk Declaration I have read and understood the guidance provided in this application form. I declare that the particulars given are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief, and I apply for a licence in accordance with these particulars. I am the owner/occupier of the land referred to in this application or I have obtained authority from the owner/occupier to act on their behalf in respect of this application. I confirm that I have obtained the permission of the owner/occupier to allow any employee or representative of Natural England to monitor or inspect the work described in this application (completed authority section on page 7 attached). Signature of applicant Date Name in BLOCK LETTERS Important advice Natural England can modify or revoke at any time any licence that may be issued, but this will not be done unless there are good reasons for doing so. Any licence that is issued is likely to be revoked immediately if it is discovered that false information had been provided that resulted in the issue of a licence. ·1 Please ensure that you have answered all relevant questions fully and have signed the declaration. ·2 If you wish to change the information on this form, please contact the Wildlife Licensing Unit (details on the front page of this application). Deer Act 1991 (as amended) Application for a licence to kill or take deer out of season or at night ·1 Please complete this application form using dark ink and BLOCK CAPITALS. ·2 All questions must be answered. Failure to provide adequate information will delay the processing of your application. ·3 The completed and signed application should be sent to Natural England at the address given opposite. ·4 Natural England will normally aim to decide whether a licence should be issued within 30 working days of receipt of the application and any accompanying information. ·5 If you experience any problems filling in this form, please contact the Wildlife Licensing Unit (details opposite). Wildlife Licensing Unit Natural England Burghill Road, Westbury-on-Trym Bristol BS10 6NJ T. 0845 601 4523 F. 0845 601 3438 E. wildlife@ naturalengland.org.uk The Deer Act 1991 (as amended) prohibits or controls the taking or killing of deer at certain times of the year, at night and by certain methods. It makes certain exceptions for occupiers of land where deer are found and allows action to be taken for the purpose of preventing suffering or in accordance with a Notice served under Section 98 of the Agriculture Act 1947. The Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007 introduced a number of new licensing provisions from 1st October 2007. Under Section 8 of the Deer Act 1991(as amended), Natural England has the power to grant licences as follows: To permit the taking or killing of deer during the relevant close season for the purpose of: Preserving public health or public safety Conserving the natural heritage To permit the taking or killing of deer at night for the purpose of: Preserving public health or public safety Conserving the natural heritage Preventing serious damage to property A licence may only be issued under these provisions if: There is a serious risk of deer causing the problem concerned and, to achieve the purpose in question, there is no satisfactory alternative to taking or killing the deer in the close season or at night as appropriate. In addition, the licensee must have a right of entry to the land for the purpose of taking or killing deer under a licence and, in the case of a licence to take or kill deer at night to prevent serious damage to property, serious damage must have been caused in the year preceding the application. The licensing provisions include a safeguard to protect the conservation status of Red, Roe and Fallow deer, to avoid reducing the population of the species concerned, within its natural range, to a level at which it cannot maintain itself in the long-term. Edited July 10, 2008 by Deker Quote Link to post
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