Bull Blood?

[Kye 77]

Hi Guys,..

 

Just curious as to why Bull types are crossed with earth dogs in the first place?...is it realy needed?...as soon as the cross is made, do you try and cross away from it as soon as possible?....do they lack nose?...etc.

 

I for one love Bull types and there hybrids in both terriers and Lurchers...i think a little of the RIGHT blood, goes a LONG way, and can be good...but ive seen bad hybrids as well...imo, some of the best finding dogs ive seen, both sighthound and terriers have had Bull in 'em...i dont think they have better noses, i just think the 'drive' to make contact with the quarry is the drving force..almost a desire to find it and tackle the chosen game...just interested in what you exsperianced lads think?

 

Kye,..

[Waz 4,303]

Hi Guys,..

 

Just curious as to why Bull types are crossed with earth dogs in the first place?...is it realy needed?...as soon as the cross is made, do you try and cross away from it as soon as possible?....do they lack nose?...etc.

 

I for one love Bull types and there hybrids in both terriers and Lurchers...i think a little of the RIGHT blood, goes a LONG way, and can be good...but ive seen bad hybrids as well...imo, some of the best finding dogs ive seen, both sighthound and terriers have had Bull in 'em...i dont think they have better noses, i just think the 'drive' to make contact with the quarry is the drving force..almost a desire to find it and tackle the chosen game...just interested in what you exsperianced lads think?

 

Kye,..

 

OK, in your opinion what is the right blood?

[Kye 77]

I would say, the right blood is from dogs that have been tested, that have been bred from dogs that where tested...the lines and names of lines are not important..just as long as they are from a good working strain...that would be my opnion?

 

Kye..

[Waz 4,303]

Yes in an ideal world.

[kirstysdad 827]

Hi Guys,..

 

Just curious as to why Bull types are crossed with earth dogs in the first place?...is it realy needed?...as soon as the cross is made, do you try and cross away from it as soon as possible?....do they lack nose?...etc.

 

I for one love Bull types and there hybrids in both terriers and Lurchers...i think a little of the RIGHT blood, goes a LONG way, and can be good...but ive seen bad hybrids as well...imo, some of the best finding dogs ive seen, both sighthound and terriers have had Bull in 'em...i dont think they have better noses, i just think the 'drive' to make contact with the quarry is the drving force..almost a desire to find it and tackle the chosen game...just interested in what you exsperianced lads think?

 

Kye,..

crossing a bull into a working earthdog line is usualy done to put some heart back into a line and if you need to do that maybe its the wrong line for you if they have lost heart i find the first crosses to be a bit big and bulky and lack in the nose department they can be handy at the end for drawing or sometimes when in a big spot and they just bump into the stuff have seen some russel cross bullls used in ireland but did lack nose crossed again to produce a 3-4 threw some decent pups a lot of working earthdog lines have got bull in there but this usualy goes back a fair way and the emphasize should be on size aswell and if you are breeding right you should not need to add heart and drive to your terriers as they should already have it

[harddigging 42]

Hi Guys,..

 

Just curious as to why Bull types are crossed with earth dogs in the first place?...is it realy needed?...as soon as the cross is made, do you try and cross away from it as soon as possible?....do they lack nose?...etc.

 

I for one love Bull types and there hybrids in both terriers and Lurchers...i think a little of the RIGHT blood, goes a LONG way, and can be good...but ive seen bad hybrids as well...imo, some of the best finding dogs ive seen, both sighthound and terriers have had Bull in 'em...i dont think they have better noses, i just think the 'drive' to make contact with the quarry is the drving force..almost a desire to find it and tackle the chosen game...just interested in what you exsperianced lads think?

 

Kye,..

 

i personally think bull blood (the right blood) can do the world of good to the working terrier strengthening jaw and structure but i wouldnt like more than an 1/8 maybe stretch to a 1/4 if right, in there cause i belive alot off the time it can do more harm than good. so basiclly you sumed it up in a nuttshell put it in then breed it staight out. its not a project i could do cause ive not got the kennel space, youd have to keep the full litter on off 1/2 crosses just to find the one maybe two that make the grade. if its not broke it cant be fixed

[hue jeers 6]

Only talking about this with my diggiing pal tonight, seems we talk about it regularly and always come to the same conclusion.

 

Which is, why the feck do people do it ?

 

There are better alternatives out there for a kick off, just go to a dog that has more bone than your bitch, as long as they are working the desired standard then things should/could work out for the long run.

 

Years back, when some Huntsman wanted to add something he either put in a bit of Bull or Bedlington/Border.

 

Now the Border and Bedlington have long been dismissed by some as no good for earth work but is this true ?

 

Is it feck.

 

What does a Bull cross give you on the positive side ?

 

Power, drive, single mindedness, bone.

 

Negatives.

 

Deep chest, lack of athletic ability, Big heads and sh*t, puny teeth, emphasised more by the power in the jaw.

 

Ask yourself why, like Kye has done, do you need those assets in an Earth dog ?

 

Answer, honestly, you dont.

 

Just my opinion though ladies and Gentlemen

[Bryan 1,363]

lack of athletic ability, Big heads and sh*t, puny teeth

 

 

are you kidding?????? FFS, lack of athletic ability and bad teeth, you need to use a good bull not bullshite

 

the worst i've seen from bull crosses was very thin coated dogs that can suffer badly in the winter.

[Waz 4,303]

When you talk of 'lack of athletic ability' I must be thinking this topic is about a different type of bull blood.

[hue jeers 6]

Yes lack of Athletic ability,

 

ie. Heavy dogs not Athletic ones.

 

Strong does not mean Athletic to me.

 

Sh*t teeth, read the post.

 

'For the power of the Jaw'. How many Bull types do you know with all their teeth after a season of work ?

 

I make my point, look in this months EDRD, you will see someone with a nice, obviously Bull type black terrier, with kak, small teeth.

 

To make the point further,smooth black Terriers are bred for looks and type as well as working ability.

 

Mind you it depends on what you or I class as working ability.

 

Once again, just my opinion.

[hue jeers 6]

When you talk of 'lack of athletic ability' I must be thinking this topic is about a different type of bull blood.

 

I know wazz, I keep putting 'my opinion' though.

 

I aren't having a dig at the Bull type, well not a real go, but it is something I have noticed over the years.

[Stabs 3]

Only talking about this with my diggiing pal tonight, seems we talk about it regularly and always come to the same conclusion.

 

Which is, why the feck do people do it ?

 

There are better alternatives out there for a kick off, just go to a dog that has more bone than your bitch, as long as they are working the desired standard then things should/could work out for the long run.

 

Years back, when some Huntsman wanted to add something he either put in a bit of Bull or Bedlington/Border.

 

Now the Border and Bedlington have long been dismissed by some as no good for earth work but is this true ?

 

Is it feck.

 

What does a Bull cross give you on the positive side ?

 

Power, drive, single mindedness, bone.

 

Negatives.

 

Deep chest, lack of athletic ability, Big heads and sh*t, puny teeth, emphasised more by the power in the jaw.

 

Ask yourself why, like Kye has done, do you need those assets in an Earth dog ?

 

Answer, honestly, you dont.

 

Just my opinion though ladies and Gentlemen

 

You had me there until the lack of athletic ability bit....good post though and one I agree with...on the whole.

[Guest 10/22]

bull blood was used because its the purest of the terrier blood and hence carries less faults than composites which could be passed on, plus it adds the obvious good points you have mentioned above, its then bred out taking care to leave within the next generations the positives you wish to keep, ie , head, jaw ,stamina, gameness etc

[FJager 0]

Hi Guys,..

 

Just curious as to why Bull types are crossed with earth dogs in the first place?...is it realy needed?...as soon as the cross is made, do you try and cross away from it as soon as possible?....do they lack nose?...etc.

 

I for one love Bull types and there hybrids in both terriers and Lurchers...i think a little of the RIGHT blood, goes a LONG way, and can be good...but ive seen bad hybrids as well...imo, some of the best finding dogs ive seen, both sighthound and terriers have had Bull in 'em...i dont think they have better noses, i just think the 'drive' to make contact with the quarry is the drving force..almost a desire to find it and tackle the chosen game...just interested in what you exsperianced lads think?

 

Kye,..

 

Kye that would have to be the best post I have read here in a while. What you have said about the finding ability has answered something I have been asking myself for years, 'the drive to make contact with the quarry'. I have found straight Bulls to 'seem' to have brilliant noses , but I agree, I think it is the drive that gives them the 'nose'. Great post for sure.

 

You back online Stab's?

[Kye 77]

Cheers FJager...i just thought it would be an interesting topic to talk about..

 

To be honest, the responses i got where what i would exspect...some love 'em, other hate 'em...i ahve dug to very good terriers with bull blood in them...ive also seen terrible dogs with bull in them...

 

I think, alot of people worry about the Bull being used...but thats only one side of the breeding right?...if your gonna use good bull blood, surly it must be put to good terrier blood right?...

 

Im not personaly bothered what goes into a dog...if it stays 'till dug too, i dont care ifs it dead mute, and hard as a coffin nail, or an all out bayer (as long as it wont let quarry past, and you dig one hole) i will keep it.

 

Thanks for the replys guys..

 

Kye..