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  • 2 weeks later...

On 25/05/2023 at 22:22, dodger said:

Loads out there but what in your opinion are the current best producers cheers..

 

The only measureable way to look at "producers" is to look at which stud dogs have had pups go on to win at novice and open trial level. 

Despite that, there will be plenty good dogs out there that have never been run in a trial. 

What is it that you are looking for? What lines are your bitch? What is her good points and what are her downsides that you are wanting to improve on? 

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2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

The only measureable way to look at "producers" is to look at which stud dogs have had pups go on to win at novice and open trial level. 

Despite that, there will be plenty good dogs out there that have never been run in a trial. 

What is it that you are looking for? What lines are your bitch? What is her good points and what are her downsides that you are wanting to improve on? 

I'm not looking for a stud I have my own was just interested in what is out there n currently throwing good stuff

As you say not everyone is interested in trialling I'd personally prefer a pup out of a tried n tested beating dog that's been to the moon n back 4 days a week for a good few seasons opposed to a trial winner but that's me..

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31 minutes ago, dodger said:

I'm not looking for a stud I have my own was just interested in what is out there n currently throwing good stuff

As you say not everyone is interested in trialling I'd personally prefer a pup out of a tried n tested beating dog that's been to the moon n back 4 days a week for a good few seasons opposed to a trial winner but that's me..

 

The problem with that mentally is, simply taking a dog to a shoot 4 days weeek don't make it a good dog. 

There's untold number of stud adverts out there saying "dog works [insert impressive number]+ days a season", but that's no way what so ever to measure if the dog is any good. 

A beating dog these days on a driven shoot doesn't even have to do a lot, they run through a woodland with a big number of birds, spooking birds up, often not flushing them properly anyway (bumping birds), and after a few shoot days most of the birds run on anyways so you don't get that many hard contact flushes that shows what a decent dog really is. 

I have seen many many dogs "taken beating", the owner snap photo's for their stud dog page, and proclaim to anyone who'll listen (or pay a stud fee) that the dog is a solid worker, yet I have seen those same dogs commit numerous major faults such as whining/yipping, chasing game, having hard mouth and crunching birds when retrieving, and just generally being out of control ... yet their rose tinted owner still proclaims what a great dog that are. 

 

There are some very good, well trained dogs out there who "just go beating" but if I was ever going to consider it for stud I definitely wouldn't take the owners word for it sadly, I would want to see it worked extensively in the field. 

 

Lads who take their dogs rough shooting would (you'd think) have their dogs to a higher standard. In order for the day to be a success, the dog needs to hunt and stay within the range of the gun. A beating dog can (and I have seen many that are) be miles outside of gunshot range, yet as long as the birds they are knocking up go over the gun line it doesn't matter. A good rough shooting dog needs to hunt in range, needs to properly flush birds or game sitting tight, and needs to mark and retrive back to hand. A trial dog should (in theory at least) be a very well polished shooting dog. 

 

Personally I would take a trail awarded dog over someone's self-proclaimed best beating dog any day of the week. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Surely the cocker world need to get away from using the same few selected studs?

What the f**k do I know but I have and will continue to use just a decent actual working dog. Makes no sense to me to pursuit trialling blood when I want field dogs, given there are actual field dogs doing exactly what I expect of them.

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/06/2023 at 22:23, Lloyd90 said:

 

The problem with that mentally is, simply taking a dog to a shoot 4 days weeek don't make it a good dog. 

There's untold number of stud adverts out there saying "dog works [insert impressive number]+ days a season", but that's no way what so ever to measure if the dog is any good. 

A beating dog these days on a driven shoot doesn't even have to do a lot, they run through a woodland with a big number of birds, spooking birds up, often not flushing them properly anyway (bumping birds), and after a few shoot days most of the birds run on anyways so you don't get that many hard contact flushes that shows what a decent dog really is. 

I have seen many many dogs "taken beating", the owner snap photo's for their stud dog page, and proclaim to anyone who'll listen (or pay a stud fee) that the dog is a solid worker, yet I have seen those same dogs commit numerous major faults such as whining/yipping, chasing game, having hard mouth and crunching birds when retrieving, and just generally being out of control ... yet their rose tinted owner still proclaims what a great dog that are. 

 

There are some very good, well trained dogs out there who "just go beating" but if I was ever going to consider it for stud I definitely wouldn't take the owners word for it sadly, I would want to see it worked extensively in the field. 

 

Lads who take their dogs rough shooting would (you'd think) have their dogs to a higher standard. In order for the day to be a success, the dog needs to hunt and stay within the range of the gun. A beating dog can (and I have seen many that are) be miles outside of gunshot range, yet as long as the birds they are knocking up go over the gun line it doesn't matter. A good rough shooting dog needs to hunt in range, needs to properly flush birds or game sitting tight, and needs to mark and retrive back to hand. A trial dog should (in theory at least) be a very well polished shooting dog. 

 

Personally I would take a trail awarded dog over someone's self-proclaimed best beating dog any day of the week. 

I just bred some pups off two of my own dogs the father is off my old dog now gone who was straight off openshaws druid possibly the best trialing dog ever and producer but generally I only breed off dogs I have seen working for several seasons .

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