Idiots! Shot Heron

[Cleanspade 3,322]

 

i cant believe how many folk are willing to run to the police or arsepca. ive a family of foxes i occasionally feed during cubbing and hard weather. despite hunting them with terriers for many years if i see someone working terriers around me should i call plod . i dont think so.

 

did you aproach the lads in the van. you said they looked shifty. i'm 5 foot nine and twelve stone wet through. but i would have been over to see what the feck they where up to keep your eye's peeled and your ears to the ground. if your around the area regular you WILL. come across them. have a word in there shell like and teach them the error of there ways.

 

ps remind me not to join an air rifle club

Im 6'3 and 17 n half stone about 20 wet through. But that does not give me the right to go and ask two lads what there doing parked in a public layby if there van is taxed , mot , and insured then even a police officer cant go poking his nose in as they are in there right to drive off if they have done no wrong or been reported for something.

 

Its pretty clear to me iv started a topic where i can not win over asking some advise its gone miles out of the subject as the heron was doing no wrong on private land.

 

no harm in having a chat with folk you meet out and about mate. you asked for advice. i gave mine. you dont agree. its all good

[smoothfinish 26]

 

 

i cant believe how many folk are willing to run to the police or arsepca. ive a family of foxes i occasionally feed during cubbing and hard weather. despite hunting them with terriers for many years if i see someone working terriers around me should i call plod . i dont think so.

 

did you aproach the lads in the van. you said they looked shifty. i'm 5 foot nine and twelve stone wet through. but i would have been over to see what the feck they where up to keep your eye's peeled and your ears to the ground. if your around the area regular you WILL. come across them. have a word in there shell like and teach them the error of there ways.

 

ps remind me not to join an air rifle club

Im 6'3 and 17 n half stone about 20 wet through. But that does not give me the right to go and ask two lads what there doing parked in a public layby if there van is taxed , mot , and insured then even a police officer cant go poking his nose in as they are in there right to drive off if they have done no wrong or been reported for something.

 

Its pretty clear to me iv started a topic where i can not win over asking some advise its gone miles out of the subject as the heron was doing no wrong on private land.

You've put it on a public forum to be discussed. It has been and some people agree with some aspects of it and some don't.

 

Yes and that is why i hold my hands up and admit defeat my white flag is flying high lol I never thought the grey heron was hated as much as rats pigeons and rabbits as they are not seen too often my bad

[Elliott 436]

 

 

 

 

Reading through the past few posts about Herons and Cormorants it seems obvious that one or two people are slightly confused about what is constituted as a pest. In fact the term 'pest' is often misused and in many cases only considered a 'pest' for three reasons:

 

1. It has no natural preditor due to its previous extinction (usually caused by man). As result the numbers have increased dramatically to such an extent that it has a detremental effect on other species within the eco system

 

2. It has a negative effect on industrial farming operations resulting in a net loss of crops (think Wood Pigeon) or where their large numbers can lead to the spoiling of stored foodstuff be it for animal or human consumption. Ironically it is often intensive farming practices that cause an increase an in a particular species' numbers i.e large scale arable farming with high crop yields (but that's another story).

 

3. It is a non-native species that outcompetes or damages our native flora or fauna

 

In the case of the humble Heron, it has no natural preditor (other than perhaps the fox) and has developed methods of avoiding predation through nesting high above the ground in trees.

 

The Heron is only doing what it does naturally, it's a preditor, and a native one at that. To those people who complain and say "the bloody thing took all my koi carp" I say tough! Is it natural for you to house non native fish in an artificial pond? No.

 

I'd say in the case of Herons and Cormorants, it is man that has caused their population to increase through both commercial fisheries and hobbyists alike. Like intensive farming, they have increased their available food source and numbers have reacted accordingly

 

Should the poor Heron suffer as a result of man's desire to house fish? I don't think so. Control is needed in some cases but only where it is considered truly detremental to the eco system. That's why DEFRA are there to decide what is appropriate through their licencing schemes.

 

If I saw anyone shooting Herons without a licence I'd shop them straight away

the humble rook also has no natural predators but ive lost count of the amount ive seen shot and posted on here as crows ?? even though the rook does no damage to agriculture at all it is still persecuted by the uneducated, if your livelyhood put the food in your kids mouths and herons and cormorants were jeopardising this then perhaps you would have a different view to the one you hold now.

Couldn't agree more ref Rooks, in fact they can be viewed as beneficial.

 

Funnily enough I'm from a large farming family and feel I have a pretty good sense of perspective

so how do you feel about pigeons/rabbits/rats etc? do you coming from a farming background believe as they all have natural predators they wont be a problem, ie if you leave the foxs. stoats, weazles, sparrowhawks and buzzards alone

I'll be honest Paul intensive farming practices have a lot to answer for. Larger fields for bigger machinery, removal of hedgerows and replacement with stock fencing, farming one particular species be it cabbages or Perennial Rye Grass resulting in a lack of diversity, chemical fertilizers, pesticide applications, the list goes on! You can't blame the farmers or fishermen, we all have to make a living. The clear issue is supplying enough food for the ever increasing population.

 

I'm a bit of a strange one though I admit, my family are farmers (I have worked on the farm all my life) undertook a Degree in Ecology and Conservation Management and actively take part in shooting activities! I feel it is for these reasons I can provide a balanced opinion

 

Rabbits are non-native but their cropping of grasslands can, in some cases, be beneficial. For example on steep calcareous soils where maintaining a short sward increases the diversity of specialist wildflowers. In other areas their presence isn't as welcome like on my local permission where the land owner has his own vegetable patch and where the rabbit makes a nice balanced meal!

 

The Wood Pigeon population is as high as it is now due to the availability of food as a result of large scale farming practices, as is the rat population. Anyone wishing to contradict these facts only needs to read the published journals and papers

Edited April 22, 2013 by Elliott

[danw 1,748]

 

 

Rooks can and do cause a massive problem to free range pig units they can consume a huge amount of pig feed which ultimately makes your packet of bacon cost more lol

Edited April 22, 2013 by danw

[Cleanspade 3,322]

for the record i like herons

[smoothfinish 26]

 

 

i cant believe how many folk are willing to run to the police or arsepca. ive a family of foxes i occasionally feed during cubbing and hard weather. despite hunting them with terriers for many years if i see someone working terriers around me should i call plod . i dont think so.

 

did you aproach the lads in the van. you said they looked shifty. i'm 5 foot nine and twelve stone wet through. but i would have been over to see what the feck they where up to keep your eye's peeled and your ears to the ground. if your around the area regular you WILL. come across them. have a word in there shell like and teach them the error of there ways.

 

ps remind me not to join an air rifle club

Im 6'3 and 17 n half stone about 20 wet through. But that does not give me the right to go and ask two lads what there doing parked in a public layby if there van is taxed , mot , and insured then even a police officer cant go poking his nose in as they are in there right to drive off if they have done no wrong or been reported for something.

 

Its pretty clear to me iv started a topic where i can not win over asking some advise its gone miles out of the subject as the heron was doing no wrong on private land.

 

no harm in having a chat with folk you meet out and about mate. you asked for advice. i gave mine. you dont agree. its all good

 

Im not saying your wrong mate not by a long way im just not the one to go round talking to people i dont know i keep myself to myself unless there friends and then il talk for england

[paulus 26]

 

 

 

 

Reading through the past few posts about Herons and Cormorants it seems obvious that one or two people are slightly confused about what is constituted as a pest. In fact the term 'pest' is often misused and in many cases only considered a 'pest' for three reasons:

 

1. It has no natural preditor due to its previous extinction (usually caused by man). As result the numbers have increased dramatically to such an extent that it has a detremental effect on other species within the eco system

 

2. It has a negative effect on industrial farming operations resulting in a net loss of crops (think Wood Pigeon) or where their large numbers can lead to the spoiling of stored foodstuff be it for animal or human consumption. Ironically it is often intensive farming practices that cause an increase an in a particular species' numbers i.e large scale arable farming with high crop yields (but that's another story).

 

3. It is a non-native species that outcompetes or damages our native flora or fauna

 

In the case of the humble Heron, it has no natural preditor (other than perhaps the fox) and has developed methods of avoiding predation through nesting high above the ground in trees.

 

The Heron is only doing what it does naturally, it's a preditor, and a native one at that. To those people who complain and say "the bloody thing took all my koi carp" I say tough! Is it natural for you to house non native fish in an artificial pond? No.

 

I'd say in the case of Herons and Cormorants, it is man that has caused their population to increase through both commercial fisheries and hobbyists alike. Like intensive farming, they have increased their available food source and numbers have reacted accordingly

 

Should the poor Heron suffer as a result of man's desire to house fish? I don't think so. Control is needed in some cases but only where it is considered truly detremental to the eco system. That's why DEFRA are there to decide what is appropriate through their licencing schemes.

 

If I saw anyone shooting Herons without a licence I'd shop them straight away

the humble rook also has no natural predators but ive lost count of the amount ive seen shot and posted on here as crows ?? even though the rook does no damage to agriculture at all it is still persecuted by the uneducated, if your livelyhood put the food in your kids mouths and herons and cormorants were jeopardising this then perhaps you would have a different view to the one you hold now.

Couldn't agree more ref Rooks, in fact they can be viewed as beneficial.

 

Funnily enough I'm from a large farming family and feel I have a pretty good sense of perspective

so how do you feel about pigeons/rabbits/rats etc? do you coming from a farming background believe as they all have natural predators they wont be a problem, ie if you leave the foxs. stoats, weazles, sparrowhawks and buzzards alone

I'll be honest Paul intensive farming practices have a lot to answer for. Larger fields for bigger machinery, removal of hedgerows and replacement with stock fencing, farming one particular species be it cabbages or Perennial Rye Grass resulting in a lack of diversity, chemical fertilizers, pesticide applications, the list goes on! You can't blame the farmers or fishermen, we all have to make a living. The clear issue is supplying enough food for the ever increasing population.

 

I'm a bit of a strange one though I admit, my family are farmers (I have worked on the farm all my life) undertook a Degree in Ecology and Conservation Management and actively take part in shooting activities! I feel it is for these reasons I can provide a balanced opinion

 

Rabbits are non-native but their cropping of grasslands can, in some cases, be beneficial. For example on steep calcareous soils where maintaining a short sward increases the diversity of specialist wildflowers. In other areas their presence isn't as welcome like on my local permission where the land owner has his own vegetable patch and where the rabbit makes a nice balanced meal!

 

The Wood Pigeon population is as high as it is now due to the availability of food as a result of large scale farming practices, as is the rat population. Anyone wishing to contradict these facts only needs to read the published journals and papers

 

so if you apply these facts youv`e stated to fish farmers then where does that leave the heron and comorant as they have no method of control other than a license to kill 5 off each per year unlike yourselves who are able to control pest species as required your post just states pests need controling when they need controling and thats something that most of us already know, its when our definition of pests contradicts with someone elses that the problems begin

[Cleanspade 3,322]

a pest is a pest becouse of where it is not becouse of what it is

[Elliott 436]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reading through the past few posts about Herons and Cormorants it seems obvious that one or two people are slightly confused about what is constituted as a pest. In fact the term 'pest' is often misused and in many cases only considered a 'pest' for three reasons:

 

1. It has no natural preditor due to its previous extinction (usually caused by man). As result the numbers have increased dramatically to such an extent that it has a detremental effect on other species within the eco system

 

2. It has a negative effect on industrial farming operations resulting in a net loss of crops (think Wood Pigeon) or where their large numbers can lead to the spoiling of stored foodstuff be it for animal or human consumption. Ironically it is often intensive farming practices that cause an increase an in a particular species' numbers i.e large scale arable farming with high crop yields (but that's another story).

 

3. It is a non-native species that outcompetes or damages our native flora or fauna

 

In the case of the humble Heron, it has no natural preditor (other than perhaps the fox) and has developed methods of avoiding predation through nesting high above the ground in trees.

 

The Heron is only doing what it does naturally, it's a preditor, and a native one at that. To those people who complain and say "the bloody thing took all my koi carp" I say tough! Is it natural for you to house non native fish in an artificial pond? No.

 

I'd say in the case of Herons and Cormorants, it is man that has caused their population to increase through both commercial fisheries and hobbyists alike. Like intensive farming, they have increased their available food source and numbers have reacted accordingly

 

Should the poor Heron suffer as a result of man's desire to house fish? I don't think so. Control is needed in some cases but only where it is considered truly detremental to the eco system. That's why DEFRA are there to decide what is appropriate through their licencing schemes.

 

If I saw anyone shooting Herons without a licence I'd shop them straight away

the humble rook also has no natural predators but ive lost count of the amount ive seen shot and posted on here as crows ?? even though the rook does no damage to agriculture at all it is still persecuted by the uneducated, if your livelyhood put the food in your kids mouths and herons and cormorants were jeopardising this then perhaps you would have a different view to the one you hold now.

Couldn't agree more ref Rooks, in fact they can be viewed as beneficial.

 

Funnily enough I'm from a large farming family and feel I have a pretty good sense of perspective

so how do you feel about pigeons/rabbits/rats etc? do you coming from a farming background believe as they all have natural predators they wont be a problem, ie if you leave the foxs. stoats, weazles, sparrowhawks and buzzards alone

I'll be honest Paul intensive farming practices have a lot to answer for. Larger fields for bigger machinery, removal of hedgerows and replacement with stock fencing, farming one particular species be it cabbages or Perennial Rye Grass resulting in a lack of diversity, chemical fertilizers, pesticide applications, the list goes on! You can't blame the farmers or fishermen, we all have to make a living. The clear issue is supplying enough food for the ever increasing population.

 

I'm a bit of a strange one though I admit, my family are farmers (I have worked on the farm all my life) undertook a Degree in Ecology and Conservation Management and actively take part in shooting activities! I feel it is for these reasons I can provide a balanced opinion

 

Rabbits are non-native but their cropping of grasslands can, in some cases, be beneficial. For example on steep calcareous soils where maintaining a short sward increases the diversity of specialist wildflowers. In other areas their presence isn't as welcome like on my local permission where the land owner has his own vegetable patch and where the rabbit makes a nice balanced meal!

 

The Wood Pigeon population is as high as it is now due to the availability of food as a result of large scale farming practices, as is the rat population. Anyone wishing to contradict these facts only needs to read the published journals and papers

so if you apply these facts youv`e stated to fish farmers then where does that leave the heron and comorant as they have no methiod of control other than a license to kill 5 off each per year unlike yourselves who are able to control pest species as required your post just states pests need controling when they need controling and thats something that most of us already know, its when our definition of pests contradicts with someone elses that the problems begin

Fish farming, for recreational purposes I feel is slightly different and possibly why DEFRA view it in the way they do. Farming to feed the country is a necessity, recreational farming of any sort isn't

[Elliott 436]

a pest is a pest becouse of where it is not becouse of what it is

Perfectly put and who dictates that? Man of course

[dadioles 68]

A nice try smoothfinish and Elliot. Find wall.... bang head. There is no getting through to some people.

 

It is always interesting to see what people post and judge their attitudes to wildlife and the law by what they write.

Sometimes I feel refreshed by the arguments and modify my views, more often than not I just despair at the uncaring ignorant selfishness displayed by so many.

Hey ho.....

 

The bottom line was that someone trespassed onto private land and shot a heron which is a protected species.

 

There is no defence. The person or people who did it should be caught and dealt with appropriately. That can take any of a number of routes depending on their age and mental ability, standard of education, background, nationality, whatever. Hopefully they could be persuaded that their actions were wrong.

 

Where there are problems with cormorants or herons or any other protected species it can be very frustrating (and expensive) for those affected but that is life. It is tough. No-one said it was fair. But if you think it is ok to break the law, no matter how stupid you may think that law is, we are all stuffed.

[Lab 10,979]

No wonder everything we enjoy doing is slowly being banned. Yes sir, no sir, ill just bend over and take it up the arse sir. No matter if it effects people's livelihoods if some prick in a suit says its illegal we all have to change our ways and financially go down the swanny.... Sad!!!

[dadioles 68]

No wonder everything we enjoy doing is slowly being banned. Yes sir, no sir, ill just bend over and take it up the arse sir. No matter if it effects people's livelihoods if some prick in a suit says its illegal we all have to change our ways and financially go down the swanny.... Sad!!!

 

You are largely right, it drives me nuts. Unfortunately we are surrounded by suits and antis and greens and wishy washy liberal townies and vegans and all manner of others who have tremendous influence based on unreasoned emotion and limited logic. This is all whipped up by the media who only want a quick headline to make money and swallowed by politicians who would do anything for a vote to keep them in a very comfortable life-style.

 

We have to work within that system.

 

I take every opportunity I can to educate people around me that guns are a good thing and that wildlife has to be controlled. Yesterday I took a middle aged opera loving gay socialist vegan anti-gun contributor to the animal rights movement target shooting at one of my permissions. I showed him the damage caused by rabbits and explained how, in my view, shooting them was quick and humane. He fired about 50 rounds from my .22lr and then a dozen or so with the .17hmr. He had never fired a gun of any sort before. Now he understands what we do, why we do it, and he has respect for my accuracy and professionalism.

 

If he read some of the stupid ignorant boastful postings and saw some of the pointless and voyeristic ego tripping pictures of blown to bits animals that some of you take delight in posting in these forums, it would undo the good that I have done. It is people like him that, through lack of understanding and the steady drip drip of anti shooting propaganda, will destroy our sport by endless regulation and control. Pistols are already illegal because of knee jerk legislation. How stupid is that.

 

So to lab-tastic and the rest of you who have your heads so far up your own back sides, open your eyes and start trying to make the system work for us and not against us.

[Lab 10,979]

 

 

No wonder everything we enjoy doing is slowly being banned. Yes sir, no sir, ill just bend over and take it up the arse sir. No matter if it effects people's livelihoods if some prick in a suit says its illegal we all have to change our ways and financially go down the swanny.... Sad!!!

You are largely right, it drives me nuts. Unfortunately we are surrounded by suits and antis and greens and wishy washy liberal townies and vegans and all manner of others who have tremendous influence based on unreasoned emotion and limited logic. This is all whipped up by the media who only want a quick headline to make money and swallowed by politicians who would do anything for a vote to keep them in a very comfortable life-style.

 

We have to work within that system.

 

I take every opportunity I can to educate people around me that guns are a good thing and that wildlife has to be controlled. Yesterday I took a middle aged opera loving gay socialist vegan anti-gun contributor to the animal rights movement target shooting at one of my permissions. I showed him the damage caused by rabbits and explained how, in my view, shooting them was quick and humane. He fired about 50 rounds from my .22lr and then a dozen or so with the .17hmr. He had never fired a gun of any sort before. Now he understands what we do, why we do it, and he has respect for my accuracy and professionalism.

 

If he read some of the stupid ignorant boastful postings and saw some of the pointless and voyeristic ego tripping pictures of blown to bits animals that some of you take delight in posting in these forums, it would undo the good that I have done. It is people like him that, through lack of understanding and the steady drip drip of anti shooting propaganda, will destroy our sport by endless regulation and control. Pistols are already illegal because of knee jerk legislation. How stupid is that.

 

So to lab-tastic and the rest of you who have your heads so far up your own back sides, open your eyes and start trying to make the system work for us and not against us.

Keep up the good work I'm sure taking gay opera loving antis to fire your gun off for you will make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. Me ill just keep doing what I'm doing and be quiet about doing it....:-)

[paulus 26]

 

No wonder everything we enjoy doing is slowly being banned. Yes sir, no sir, ill just bend over and take it up the arse sir. No matter if it effects people's livelihoods if some prick in a suit says its illegal we all have to change our ways and financially go down the swanny.... Sad!!!

 

You are largely right, it drives me nuts. Unfortunately we are surrounded by suits and antis and greens and wishy washy liberal townies and vegans and all manner of others who have tremendous influence based on unreasoned emotion and limited logic. This is all whipped up by the media who only want a quick headline to make money and swallowed by politicians who would do anything for a vote to keep them in a very comfortable life-style.

 

We have to work within that system.

 

I take every opportunity I can to educate people around me that guns are a good thing and that wildlife has to be controlled. Yesterday I took a middle aged opera loving gay socialist vegan anti-gun contributor to the animal rights movement target shooting at one of my permissions. I showed him the damage caused by rabbits and explained how, in my view, shooting them was quick and humane. He fired about 50 rounds from my .22lr and then a dozen or so with the .17hmr. He had never fired a gun of any sort before. Now he understands what we do, why we do it, and he has respect for my accuracy and professionalism.

 

If he read some of the stupid ignorant boastful postings and saw some of the pointless and voyeristic ego tripping pictures of blown to bits animals that some of you take delight in posting in these forums, it would undo the good that I have done. It is people like him that, through lack of understanding and the steady drip drip of anti shooting propaganda, will destroy our sport by endless regulation and control. Pistols are already illegal because of knee jerk legislation. How stupid is that.

 

So to lab-tastic and the rest of you who have your heads so far up your own back sides, open your eyes and start trying to make the system work for us and not against us.

 

what a load of b*llocks, most people dont give a knatts c*nt what we do or how we do it as long as it has no impact on them or their lifes. its only when done badly that it makes the headlines and thus makes a differance (sensationalisum sells) and knee jerk reactions win votes. all the converting in the world wont change these facts