Give A Dog A Pill? Mark11.

[sandymere 8,261]

Now I admit to being a bit of an old git in my own time so maybe my perception is clouded by bad attitude but lordy at times I cold spit blood. To demonstrate what I mean I need to tell a story.

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.

 

As with all the best stories this one begins in the pub, a small back street local rarely troubled by the incursion of non-locals but on this day was invaded by a party of holiday makers. There I was sipping my beer and pondering on life when the establishment was invaded by two quiet large couples plus offspring and a nicely made terrier. I retired to the other side of the bar to contemplate the wonders of beer but alas my revere was disturbed by the conversation from across the way as it grew in volume seemingly fueled by an urgency of one to outdo the other.

 

It seemed to have begun with the rather stouter of the two ladies complaining of "pains in her knees" and how the NHS had totally failed to cure, or even find a cause for this affliction, other than an "idiotic doctor who said it was because she was so over weight!" This opening salvo was countered by the second lady bringing out her food allergies. These it seemed were numerous and devastating resulting in a multitude of symptoms from bloating, wind and constipation to diarrhea. These revelations were countered by the larger lady with "Irritable Bowel Syndrome" or IBS with a far too in-depth description of her symptoms and as the final blow stated "Popsy" the terrier is just the same". With this statement she sat back on her laurels, or at least bar stool, and surveyed the field daring any to attempt a riposte.

 

Her broken adversary forgo to attempt to out ill such an opponent but rather fell to meekly inquiring on the poor pups symptoms. As answer the victor gleefully described a catalogue of ills, allergies and dietary constraints as diagnosed by "her friend" the "dog star" that knows about dogs. These it seemed closely resembled those she had described earlier when pronouncing on her own IBS. The pup it would seem could only remain symptom free with feeding a "special diet" and a multitude of supplements from seaweed to garlic.

 

During the exchange the dog in question had scrabbled around the floor with the innumerable children sharing in their crisp, fizzy pop and cheese rolls with confidence and the look of a well practiced cadger of unwanted morsels. I ruefully thought, "if that dogs got a food intolerance let alone allergy there've in for an interesting few night under canvas"

 

A couple of evenings later we were again "blessed " with this bundle of humanity with similar results with the doyenne of medical extremis putting away more alcohol, in a variety of forms, than us poor locals could manage in a week.This got me thinking, a dangerous practice after a few glasses of "Old Appledore", the pup seemed extremely healthy and happy on its diet of hypo-allergenic-low fat-low protein-extremely expensive food and various supplements, at least when this is balanced with crisps, chocolate, sandwiches, snot and whatever it could scrounge from or lick off of the faces of its dimitive human playmates.

Throwing caution to the winds I decided to approach the, by now merry crew, and commented on the animal in question. This elicited a good response with explanations of it's prowess of intelligence, alertness, guarding ability, iron constitution and "it's so good with the kids". Venturing to have a quick exam of the pup I found a well made youngster with a good coat, clear bright eye, well colored gums and no sign of dehydration or ills of any sort, certainly no sign of ill effects from its somewhat catholic diet. So in one circumstance it was a fragile, poorly pup in dire duress in the other it's a contender to Lassies crown.

 

Where's the truth? Probably somewhere in the middle perhaps at some point the pup had a touch of gastritis, from whatever cause, but as to there being an ongoing problem it would seem unlikely having watched it consume a variety of foods with seemingly no adverse effects. Foods that could only be dealt by an animal that had inherited its digestive prowess from generations of wolves then dogs that had survived by being able to digest and utilize whatever calorie sources where available in whatever condition they were in. This all begs the question why?

 

Why do people get kudus from ill health and is the recent upsurge in new canine diets, supplements and herbal remedies, following similar for humans, a symptom of transference of our own inadequacies rather than any real problem with our dogs? As many people come to believe in supplements etc to use as crutches for their own fears or poor lifestyles are we developing a culture of normality for such behavior? Will the future hold status through ill health rather than health leading to transference of this behavior to our pets, Hypochondria by proxy or perhaps even Münchausen by proxy of Canis familiaris.

[whippet 99 2,613]

your too interlectual for me ,..................but i think i know what your getting at...........

any chance you can just varify that...............cheers

[lapin2008 1,587]

can someone who has read it please summarise

[sandymere 8,261]

your too interlectual for me ,..................but i think i know what your getting at...........

any chance you can just varify that...............cheers

Just ask yourself, how the hell did dogs survived for millions of years without supplements? lol.If a second hand car saleman says you need a new car because its made of iron and irons good for your health would you believe them.

Edited January 16, 2013 by sandymere

[sandymere 8,261]

can someone who has read it please summarise

Sorry, fancy posting something with words that are more than 4 letters that hasn't got any topless girls. I expect there's a few on here that can manage to absorb more than one sentence at a time who can help you.Ps I can also recomend this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony lol.

[whippet 99 2,613]

carm down pal i cant help being thick.............i was born like it....... and i can see what your saying.........................

one question ..................are dogs of today healthier than the dogs of old..........?

look at some of those urban foxes .................how healthy they are apart from the mange..............living on scraps..........

[LaraCroft 863]

The dogs survived just fine without us - can't help but think they are the clever ones

 

At work at the weekend, I had to treat a elderly lady with a urine infection, along with thrush. She had been seen the previous week by her GP and had been given antibiotics for the infection, and a cream for the thrush ( she showed me the bottle and the tube ). She had finished the tablets, but was still using the cream, and proclaimed herself to be " still very very sore ... you know, down there..."

 

Turns out she was using her dogs chicken flavoured enzyme based toothpaste, on her "down there" instead of the thrush cream.

 

I wasn't sure what I was more concerned about, the dog having his teeth brushed with thrush cream, or the fact the woman then told me " no wonder it is sore, chicken has never agreed with me"

[lapin2008 1,587]

can someone who has read it please summarise

Sorry, fancy posting something with words that are more than 4 letters that hasn't got any topless girls. I expect there's a few on here that can manage to absorb more than one sentence at a time who can help you.Ps I can also recomend this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony lol.

I really look up to you sandy, when I grow up I want to be very clever, just like you!

[sandymere 8,261]

I ain't clever, just not stupid, the post was a piss take when it was first written and remains so. I tend to ignore the people/companies who rip of the" worried well" as in the main they are well able to afford to pander to their own silly ideas, you know the sort riding around on their mobesity scooters carrying macabre lap dogs in shopping bags. But I do tend to get fed up when the snake oil sellers come onto working dog sites, where on the whole people work hard for their money and try to do whats best for their dogs. They suggest a pill for this and a powder for that backed by the usual rubbish hidden behind a veil of pseudo health claims. Oh and it just happens they know where you can buy it!

 

I have no hidden agenda, I don't have anything to sell, but I do have a very good understanding of pharmacology, anatomy and physiology. I back this with around 40 years experience with sight hounds and then if I'm not sure I seek advice. When questioned about a post I had made on rhabdomyolysis I discussed it with a renal consultant, when dealing with medication etc I talk with a pharmacist. They like me aren't selling anything so just give independent advice based on their specialist knowledge.

 

So in conclusion there are lots of folks out there trying to blind you with pseudo science to get you to buy their particular brand of rubbish, I just try to balance them out a little on THL, strangely enough this upsets the snake oil sellers.

Edited January 17, 2013 by sandymere

[whippet 99 2,613]

I ain't clever, just not stupid, the post was a piss take when it was first written and remains so. I tend to ignore the people/companies who rip of the" worried well" as in the main they are well able to afford to pander to their own silly ideas, you know the sort riding around on their mobesity scooters carrying macabre lap dogs in shopping bags. But I do tend to get fed up when the snake oil sellers come onto working dog sites, where on the whole people work hard for their money and try to do whats best for their dogs. They suggest a pill for this and a powder for that backed by the usual rubbish hidden behind a veil of pseudo health claims. Oh and it just happens they know where you can buy it!

 

I have no hidden agenda, I don't have anything to sell, but I do have a very good understanding of pharmacology, anatomy and physiology. I back this with around 40 years experience with sight hounds and then if I'm not sure I seek advice. When questioned about a post I had made on rhabdomyolysis I discussed it with a renal consultant, when dealing with medication etc I talk with a pharmacist. They like me aren't selling anything so just give independent advice based on their specialist knowledge.

 

So in conclusion there are lots of folks out there trying to blind you with pseudo science to get you to buy their particular brand of rubbish, I just try to balance them out a little on THL, strangely enough this upsets the snake oil sellers.

thats better i can understand that lol.........

just the man ,.i can get the below drugs are they any use for dogs ,.many thanks.................................

NOROCILLIN 30%SUSPENSION FOR INJECTION ------------SYSTEMIC INFECTIONS

PEN & STREP INJECTION SUSPENSION-----------------INFECTIONS , ORGANISMS SENSITIVE TO PENICILLIN

MELOXIDYL------------------RESPIRATORY INFECTION,......PAIN KILLER AND LAMENESS

BETAMOX LA INJECTION--------------SUSCEPTIBLE MICROORGANISMS

TYLAN 200------------------URINARY INFECTIONS/POST OPERATIVE INFECTIONS

LINCOJECT--------------ANAROBIC BACTERIA

I CAN GET ALL OF THE ABOVE DRUGS OFF A FRIEND ,................JUST AFTER MORE INFORMATION WHAT IS SAFE FOR DOGS,........................CHEERS FOR ANY HELP...........

I KNOW OF TWO OF THE ABOVE SUBSCIPTIONS ARE SEPTINLE FOR DOGS.........

[hutch6 550]

Good post Sandy and I too am very sceptical when it comes to suppliments etc for humans and dogs. Just how much vitamin b12 does our body need in order to remain healthy? How was this found out? Is Vitamin B12 any better at it's job than B31 or a bit of fish?

 

Vitamins and naturally occuring minerals in our bodies can only be digested and used when there are other elements present which is why it's better to eat right and not just have Kentucky Friend Cat every night and take a multivitamin. I can't remember the last time one of my mates had scurvy or rickets through poor diet and they don't take suppliments to compliment their dietary habits.

 

As for dogs having the runs, upset tums, wind or whatever ask someone what they feed the dog. If it is made up of dry food then the chances are they will have upset tums etc when they are given something that god forbid they have to digest. Dry foods contain a whole array of preservatives. You buy dry food in a plastic bag uaully and in that bag is oxygen, the great decomposing element and giver of life to things like bacteria, mould and general stuff that grow on stuff and rot it down. Now, the dry food isn't manufactured, shipped, sold and consumed in a matter of days, it is manufactured in vast quantities as it's cheaper that way, caked in preservatives - most of which are illegal in human food because of the effects they have like cancer, cell disfunction and generally kill everything inside you that protects you, they are then stored in wharehouses for a while, shipped tot he petstores in bulk so are stored for a while again, bought and maybe stored for a while, opened up to let oxgen in and consumed over a period of time which is dependent on how many dogs you have and how much they are fed on a daily basis. Basically the food is mixed with and coated in preservative to stop the food spoiling for a while with stuff that kills off virtually every bacteria found in the natural world that can break it down.

My mate bought a pallet, yes a pallet of dry dog food. He had three spaniels and a metric ton of food for them. It took a year and a bit for the dogs to get through the food and some of the bags had little tears in it and yet none of the food smelled any different or looked any different from the first bag he used tot the last. Now if the food can stand open to the elements and defend itself nice and easily without much effort imagine what it dfoes inside the dog when the internal moisture distributes these preservatives aroudn the dogs body.

First it will kill most bacteria found in the mouth - the first part of any digestive system. The it kills any good or bad bacteria right down to the stomach meaning there is little or no bacteria to break anything down correctly when the dog consumes something like a slice of boiled ham. Boiled ham isn't a rich food but it is if don't have the helpful bacteria to break it down so I guess your stomach and pancreas has to produce a larger amount of bile to try and deal with it. If you fed the dog on boiled ham for a few day the runs would clear up because the bacteria found on the ham that is already attacking it and breaking it down (hence why ham goes off after say a week) are delivered to the gut which is warm and allows them to breed and multiply. The next day your dog eats a slice of ham it has no issue dealing with digesting it.

The cycle is broken though by the owner because they think "Oh, my dog can't handle boiled ham, best go back to the dry which it was ok on". This resets the bacteria level to zero again and the next time a dog picks soemthign off the floor it has the shits.

 

When an owner enquires about swapping from dry food to raw they always ask me "what can I expect?" The first thing I always say is you dog may have the shits for a day or two but make sure they are getting plenty of liquid and you will see an improvement in a few days with good solid movements.

 

I reckon the same is applied ot the human diet when you start eating ready meals or jarred sauces or bread that stay fresh for over a week. They have such a long shelf life because something is protecting them against bacteria so when you eat that protection it kills off your internal bacteria that alows you not only to break the food down but also draw off the nutrients from that food.

 

Baker's dog food is pretty darn popular amongst dog owners because of the crap they pu ton it. Dogs don't have very good taste buds so it's all about smell with them and Bakers smells like crystal meth to a smackhead. IF you breakdown what goes into Bakers you get an idea of what goes into otherdry food for dogs:

 

E320 - has been found to be tumour -producing when fed to rats. In human studies it has been linked with urticaria, angioedema and asthma.

 

E321 - BANNED for use in food in Japan, Romania, Sweden, and Australia. The US has BANNED it from being used in infant foods. So bad McNasty's have voluntarily eliminated it from their products.

 

 

E310 - BANNED from children's foods in the US because it is thought to cause the blood disorder methemoglobinemia.

 

E172 - BANNED in Germany.

...

E132 - Can cause skin sensitivity, a rash similar to nettle rash, itching, nausea, high blood pressure and breathing problems. One of the colours that the Hyperactive Children's Support Group recommends be eliminated from the diet of children. PROHIBITED in Norway.

 

E102 - TARTRAZINE -A trial on 76 children diagnosed as hyperactive, showed that tartrazine provoked abnormal behaviour patterns in 79% of them.

 

E110 - Sunset Yellow (E110) has been found to damage kidneys and adrenals when fed to laboratory rats. It has also been found to be carcinogenic when fed to animals.

 

E104 - One of the colours that the Hyperactive Children's Support Group recommends be eliminated from the diet of children.BANNED in Australia, Japan, Norway and the United States.

 

E171 - BANNED in Germany.

 

E153 -BANNED as a food additive in the United States of America. Suspected as a carcinogenic agent.

[sandymere 8,261]

Whippet 99 there's a big difference between prescription medication and seaweed powder lol. Best get your script through a vet if you don't know what your doing

 

Hutch, I'm glad you also also feel that most of the supplements are completely unnecessary.

Edited January 17, 2013 by sandymere

[whippet 99 2,613]

Whippet 99 there's a big difference between prescription medication and seaweed powder lol. Best get your script through a vet if you don't know what your doing

 

Hutch, I'm glad you also also feel that most of the supplements are completely unnecessary.

i was waiting for that one lol

if you could get the above for free wouldnt you be interested what you could use for what.....................................there was me thinking you were the professor ..............

[Born Hunter 17,638]

Whippet 99 there's a big difference between prescription medication and seaweed powder lol. Best get your script through a vet if you don't know what your doing

 

Hutch, I'm glad you also also feel that most of the supplements are completely unnecessary.

i was waiting for that one lol

if you could get the above for free wouldnt you be interested what you could use for what.....................................there was me thinking you were the professor ..............

 

I think sandy is being quite wise not giving advice on prescription medication over the internet. I'm sure he's fully aware of what use they are.

[Irish 78]

Now I admit to being a bit of an old git in my own time so maybe my perception is clouded by bad attitude but lordy at times I cold spit blood. To demonstrate what I mean I need to tell a story.

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.

 

As with all the best stories this one begins in the pub, a small back street local rarely troubled by the incursion of non-locals but on this day was invaded by a party of holiday makers. There I was sipping my beer and pondering on life when the establishment was invaded by two quiet large couples plus offspring and a nicely made terrier. I retired to the other side of the bar to contemplate the wonders of beer but alas my revere was disturbed by the conversation from across the way as it grew in volume seemingly fueled by an urgency of one to outdo the other.

 

It seemed to have begun with the rather stouter of the two ladies complaining of "pains in her knees" and how the NHS had totally failed to cure, or even find a cause for this affliction, other than an "idiotic doctor who said it was because she was so over weight!" This opening salvo was countered by the second lady bringing out her food allergies. These it seemed were numerous and devastating resulting in a multitude of symptoms from bloating, wind and constipation to diarrhea. These revelations were countered by the larger lady with "Irritable Bowel Syndrome" or IBS with a far too in-depth description of her symptoms and as the final blow stated "Popsy" the terrier is just the same". With this statement she sat back on her laurels, or at least bar stool, and surveyed the field daring any to attempt a riposte.

 

Her broken adversary forgo to attempt to out ill such an opponent but rather fell to meekly inquiring on the poor pups symptoms. As answer the victor gleefully described a catalogue of ills, allergies and dietary constraints as diagnosed by "her friend" the "dog star" that knows about dogs. These it seemed closely resembled those she had described earlier when pronouncing on her own IBS. The pup it would seem could only remain symptom free with feeding a "special diet" and a multitude of supplements from seaweed to garlic.

 

During the exchange the dog in question had scrabbled around the floor with the innumerable children sharing in their crisp, fizzy pop and cheese rolls with confidence and the look of a well practiced cadger of unwanted morsels. I ruefully thought, "if that dogs got a food intolerance let alone allergy there've in for an interesting few night under canvas"

 

A couple of evenings later we were again "blessed " with this bundle of humanity with similar results with the doyenne of medical extremis putting away more alcohol, in a variety of forms, than us poor locals could manage in a week.This got me thinking, a dangerous practice after a few glasses of "Old Appledore", the pup seemed extremely healthy and happy on its diet of hypo-allergenic-low fat-low protein-extremely expensive food and various supplements, at least when this is balanced with crisps, chocolate, sandwiches, snot and whatever it could scrounge from or lick off of the faces of its dimitive human playmates.

Throwing caution to the winds I decided to approach the, by now merry crew, and commented on the animal in question. This elicited a good response with explanations of it's prowess of intelligence, alertness, guarding ability, iron constitution and "it's so good with the kids". Venturing to have a quick exam of the pup I found a well made youngster with a good coat, clear bright eye, well colored gums and no sign of dehydration or ills of any sort, certainly no sign of ill effects from its somewhat catholic diet. So in one circumstance it was a fragile, poorly pup in dire duress in the other it's a contender to Lassies crown.

 

Where's the truth? Probably somewhere in the middle perhaps at some point the pup had a touch of gastritis, from whatever cause, but as to there being an ongoing problem it would seem unlikely having watched it consume a variety of foods with seemingly no adverse effects. Foods that could only be dealt by an animal that had inherited its digestive prowess from generations of wolves then dogs that had survived by being able to digest and utilize whatever calorie sources where available in whatever condition they were in. This all begs the question why?

 

Why do people get kudus from ill health and is the recent upsurge in new canine diets, supplements and herbal remedies, following similar for humans, a symptom of transference of our own inadequacies rather than any real problem with our dogs? As many people come to believe in supplements etc to use as crutches for their own fears or poor lifestyles are we developing a culture of normality for such behavior? Will the future hold status through ill health rather than health leading to transference of this behavior to our pets, Hypochondria by proxy or perhaps even Münchausen by proxy of Canis familiaris.

 

Jackanory time !!! whats this got to do with the price of butter, or more to the point, dog owning civilians that couldn't care less what fido eats, comparing to the working (dog) men/woman who care a lot more what goes into their well oiled working machines. If we didn't care we wouldn't go out of our way to make sure we put in exactly what the dogs mechanism requires to be in top tune, so some post and ask questions on various supplementation. Get out of the books and into the field sandy, keep story time to bed time or the countrymaids weekly.