.22lr ans .17HMR on first FAC?

[zook 0]

fair enough but as I said earlier when I applied was made clear to me .22lr wasnt allowed for foxes this is also leicestershire

[heanoid 1]

this is getting more confusing by the minute the guys from lancashire (i presume they include that awful county of greater mancherter in that thats who issued my FAC)some are saying they were told one thing abuot fox and .17 hmr some another...well here is some more confusion on my original application i asked for a .223 a.22lr and a.17 hmr got them all, land caliberd etc ok for five years ...re applyed same again only added hornet,again no probs got them all as i said before just sent off for a variation ( hornet off .222 on ) forgot to say on my second application i asked for an open ticket and got this no problems

[quiglee 3]

Hi,

Put in for my coterminous cert middle of December '09. .22lr & .17hmr. .22 for rabbits/vermin & .17 for long range rabbit & Fox. FEO came last thursday and my certificates arrived in the post on sat morning. Good times. Obviously no problem with my force using the hmr for fox. Only question was the land really so as long as your permission is passed off for .17hmr i dont think you will have any problems. Good luck.

[adamthomas64 1]

hi, i am also in leicestershire andmy feo didnt want me using either a ,22lr or a .17hmr for fox and told me to apply for a .22cf so thats what i did, strange how 3 people all from leicestershire having 3 different experiences, my feo told me that .17hmr IS a suitable round for fox at the right distance and in experienced hands, but he also said that he would much rather me apply for a .22cf aswell, as this was my first grant and would not be very keen on issuing me with a ,17hmr for fox.

 

 

[Colster 1]

heanoid im in leigh, my fac used to have fox control for hmr on ticket, but they took it off, i did look it up and it is illeagal to use rimmy's for fox control,

 

I like to see where you found this... not trying to start a war here but my understanding is it's illegal to shoot foxes if you don't have a condition for them on your FAC. In which case, it's down to the FLO/FEO as to whether they allow certain calibres for fox in their area.

 

There are Home Office guidelines which stipulate that their advice to FLO's is that the smaller .22 centrefires (.22Hornet, .222, .22-250 etc) should be considered the minimum but regardless some forces will allow HMR/WMR and even LR for fox because these guidelines are just that, guidelines not law.

 

I think the most confusing one is where certain FLO's consider "Pests and Vermin" to include Fox, that makes it difficult if you have just "Pests and Vermin" on your cert to know whether your's is a force that includes fox in that description or not.

[Guest dazzb]

i'll try to find it mate, you wont start a war with me as the lad above say's 3 lads from same area and 3 different interpretations, who's right and who's wrong you tell me, could they make it more difficult

[rowey 1]

since i got a 17 the 22 stays in the cabinet. saying that 17 ammo is dear compared to 22 as mentioned in other posts. leics firearms don't encourage 17's or 22's for foxing though thats not the law. I've dropped a few with the 17 but they've not got the stopping power of a centrefire. I've just dropped on the odd unlucky one when feeding or checking traps. i find neck shots are best with the 17. the 17 is more fun has better accuracy and range so if it was me i'd opt for that. basc website has good advice for land and calibre enquiries.my ticket authorises my centrefire for fox and not the rimfires but like i said thats not the law. wheres the sense in being able to shotgun a fox and not use well placed bullet ?

Edited February 11, 2010 by rowey

[Deker 3,461]

heanoid im in leigh, my fac used to have fox control for hmr on ticket, but they took it off, i did look it up and it is illeagal

 

 

Not sure what you looked up but I can assure you 110% that there is NO legal minimum, calibre/energy/type of rifle or bullet for shooting fox!!!

 

You may certainly break the law in some circumstances by using a gun not conditioned for fox, but by way of calibre/power/etc there is NO specific law!!!

 

A lot of forces do not like Rimfire at all for fox, that is their choice, it is NOT law, if you don't agree take them to court and contest it, they take the attitude few will have the balls..they are right!!

[Guest dazzb]

deker colster & rewy, i may be wrong saying it's law but im sure ive read it like i say i'll try and find it, but how does that stand with deer, can i shoot one with my hmr, is it a guidline or law that i cant???? then you can look at the different guid lines for scotland?????????

not looking for an argument lads im curious thats all

[Deker 3,461]

deker colster & rewy, i may be wrong saying it's law but im sure ive read it like i say i'll try and find it, but how does that stand with deer, can i shoot one with my hmr, is it a guidline or law that i cant???? then you can look at the different guid lines for scotland?????????

not looking for an argument lads im curious thats all

 

 

1991 Deer Act and 2007 Amendment lays down the calibre and power and types of ammo permissable on deer.

 

17HMR is NOT deer legal, the only possible excuse you could have for legitimately using 17HMR on any deer is to humanely despatch one you came accross as quickly as possible, if this was the most appropriate tool you had and to reduce undue suffering!

 

This applies to England and Wales, Scotland is similar but different!

 

But whichever country you are in 17HMR is not deer legal!

Edited February 12, 2010 by Deker

[Guest dazzb]

i know its not mate i dont think you get my point,we was talking about laws and guidlines, i know very well you cant use hmr for deer (i'm not quite that thick) but you was saying about the use of hmr for fox was a guidline not law, and now your saying cant use it for deer it's law, feck now im confusing myself now i think i'll leave it there!

atb daz

[Deker 3,461]

i know its not mate i dont think you get my point,we was talking about laws and guidlines, i know very well you cant use hmr for deer (i'm not quite that thick) but you was saying about the use of hmr for fox was a guidline not law, and now your saying cant use it for deer it's law, feck now im confusing myself now i think i'll leave it there!

atb daz

 

 

I'm a little confused as to why you are confused!!

 

There is an Act of Parliament and Amendments (LAW) which lays down the EXACT detail for deer control!

 

There is NO such Act relating to fox, there is Home Office Guidelines (which are simply guidelines) and there is each individual Police regions interpretation of these guidelines! If your force will not condition fox on your FAC for rimfire then you cannot legally shoot it! That does not make it illegal to shoot fox with a rimfire, it is only illegal in your region for the simple reason you are in breach of your conditions!!

 

There is no law whatsoever in this country that says you can't shoot a fox with a rimfire, that's why I and many others DO have our rimfires conditioned for fox!!

[Colster 1]

As Deker said, I'm guessing what you read was the Home Office guidelines to FLO's. It DOES say in there that .22CF should be considered the minimum for fox but this isn't embraced by all FLO's and some will allow rimfires for fox. That is their decision and then you could have a fox condition for rimfire on your FAC.

 

As I said before the most confusing bit is some FLO's classing Fox as Vermin and allowing fox by implication - I think it should be clearly stated "Fox and Vermin" or "Vermin and Opportunistic Fox" where they are allowing a licence holder to shoot foxes.

[Deker 3,461]

As Deker said, I'm guessing what you read was the Home Office guidelines to FLO's. It DOES say in there that .22CF should be considered the minimum for fox but this isn't embraced by all FLO's and some will allow rimfires for fox. That is their decision and then you could have a fox condition for rimfire on your FAC.

 

As I said before the most confusing bit is some FLO's classing Fox as Vermin and allowing fox by implication - I think it should be clearly stated "Fox and Vermin" or "Vermin and Opportunistic Fox" where they are allowing a licence holder to shoot foxes.

 

 

 

And if it was not confusing enough already..the new wording agreed by ACPO to simplify and bring uniformity accross the regions....

 

....and all other lawfull quarry

 

.....has done nothing but add yet further confusion!!

Edited February 13, 2010 by Deker

[fatboy 0]

I dont think it is confusing at all,here is the wording on my ticket

 

The .22rf rifle ,sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting vermin and ground game and for zeroing on ranges.

 

The .17hmr rifle ,sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting vermin and foxes and for zeroing on ranges.

 

It seems to be luck of the draw as to the force you have your ticket under.

Personally the 17hmr used at the right distances is fine for shooting foxes,but if your force will not let you take foxes with 17hmr take the opportunity and go centrefire if that is what they are prepared to agree on,as some forces would not even consider cf on a first application.I am sure if you sit down over a cup of tea with your FLO, you would be able to sort out something,as most of them are very keen to get you into the sport.