couple of reloading ????

[quicksilver 0]

after a period of gathering up the kit i need to get started in reloading i finally produced my first few rounds for the .223. I have a couple of basic questions that hopefully someone will clear up for me.

 

1. what is the effect of shorter or longer COL. if i keep the recipe exactly the same and vary the COL what effects on pressure and velocity does this have on the round. What method do you use to determine the best COL for your rifle, do you measure or do you vary the bullet seating depth as part of a trial and error process.

 

2. for hunting rounds do you prefer to crimp the bullet or is there not really a big benefit. What effects does crimping have on pressures / velocities over non crimped rounds.

 

thanks in advance

keith

[SNAP SHOT 194]

1) the internal volume will be reduced and there pressure will increase, the same if you increase the COl. to the point were its near the rifling....

ie. there is initial resistance until the pressure builds...... forcing the bullet down the barrel...

 

think id you park your car real close to a kerb and try and drive over it.... needs a good rev to get the power up...

 

but if you park back from the kerb and just drive no real effort is required...

 

As you are new to the reloading process, i'd recommend that you stick to quoted bullet col. in your reloading manuals....

 

2) never crimp my rounds.....

 

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Snap.

[jackg 7]

after a period of gathering up the kit i need to get started in reloading i finally produced my first few rounds for the .223. I have a couple of basic questions that hopefully someone will clear up for me.

 

1. what is the effect of shorter or longer COL. if i keep the recipe exactly the same and vary the COL what effects on pressure and velocity does this have on the round. What method do you use to determine the best COL for your rifle, do you measure or do you vary the bullet seating depth as part of a trial and error process.

 

Better or worse accuracy. It is a variable like powder charge. Once you have a decent load then vary COL. EG 0.030", 0.060", 0.090", 0.120" off the lands. My gun shoots best with 0.090" off lands, a lot longer than factory.

 

2. for hunting rounds do you prefer to crimp the bullet or is there not really a big benefit. What effects does crimping have on pressures / velocities over non crimped rounds.

 

Do not crimp my rounds

 

thanks in advance

keith

[quicksilver 0]

Thanks for the replies.

 

My rifle has a 20" barrel therefore to achieve higher velocities in the short barrel should I aim to seat the bullet close to the rifling. This is for future reloads, I am basically looking to get good condistancy at this stage.

[jackg 7]

Thanks for the replies.

 

My rifle has a 20" barrel therefore to achieve higher velocities in the short barrel should I aim to seat the bullet close to the rifling. This is for future reloads, I am basically looking to get good condistancy at this stage.

 

AIUI the powder charge determines velocity and accuracy , the COL affects accuracy. It very much depends on yours barrel and chamber.

[jamie g 17]

Thanks for the replies.

 

My rifle has a 20" barrel therefore to achieve higher velocities in the short barrel should I aim to seat the bullet close to the rifling. This is for future reloads, I am basically looking to get good condistancy at this stage.

 

AIUI the powder charge determines velocity and accuracy , the COL affects accuracy. It very much depends on yours barrel and chamber.

 

 

dont forget if you go to long on the col your have trouble feeding the rounds from the mag. what sort of groups you getting at the moment. uf there good leave them as they are.

 

people i no stick to a length then up the charge abit at a time till they get presure signs like sticky bolt or flattened primers. then they back off abit.

 

then once thats done make some more rounds with that charger but at different col to then see which shoots the best.

 

but everyone does it different

[jamie g 17]

Thanks for the replies.

 

My rifle has a 20" barrel therefore to achieve higher velocities in the short barrel should I aim to seat the bullet close to the rifling. This is for future reloads, I am basically looking to get good condistancy at this stage.

 

 

most of the consistanty your after is from good case prep nit just col. ie''' stick to one brand of case. after there fired clean them in a sonic cleaner

clean the primer pockets and flash hole, use mandle to make sure the neck is nice and round. trim them if you need to so there all the same length.

 

case prep is very important if you want it consistant.

[dicehorn 38]

after a period of gathering up the kit i need to get started in reloading i finally produced my first few rounds for the .223. I have a couple of basic questions that hopefully someone will clear up for me.

 

1. what is the effect of shorter or longer COL. if i keep the recipe exactly the same and vary the COL what effects on pressure and velocity does this have on the round. What method do you use to determine the best COL for your rifle, do you measure or do you vary the bullet seating depth as part of a trial and error process.

 

2. for hunting rounds do you prefer to crimp the bullet or is there not really a big benefit. What effects does crimping have on pressures / velocities over non crimped rounds.

 

thanks in advance

keith

 

 

Keith

 

To be quite honest and as you are fairly new to reloading, your best bet is to sit next to an experienced loader - that way you will learn alot more. Your problem with taking note about some comments on forums such as this and others could cause you a serious accident.

 

If you are serious about your reloading you will need to forget about high velocities - high velocity very seldom equals accuracy. Have you a chronograph? if not, how can you measure how consistent your loads are - consistent loads should give a spread of less than 10 fps. Do you neck turn your new cases? What is the maximum you will permit on bullet run out? Do you weigh your new brass and batch them accordingly - heavier ones have less case volume (in extreme cases your favoured load could cause catastrophic pressure build up. Likewise light cases will create too much air space between bullet and powder.

 

All perhaps a bit technical, but the point I am driving at is when making reloads it is not all about putting the same amount of powder in and the same COL. Your success or otherwise could even come down to the method of cleaning the bore and carbon removal.

 

If you put up your location in your signature - who knows there may be someone handy to you.

[quicksilver 0]

thanks dicehorn

 

i appreciate your feedback and i agree that you can learn a lot from someone with experience on a given subject, where i see the benefit in asking questions on a forum is that you can get views from a much broader base of people. the problem is filtering out those of value and those that are of no value. it doesnt take long to see from some general responses (not just reloading) on the BB, the people that appear to be knowledgeable and those that are one page ahead of myself in certain matters.

 

i have a technical background and i like to understand the effects and variations that certain processes cause, i am happy to stick to the guidelines and have no reason to create hot loads for the types of shooting that i do. most of my shooting is under 200m and therefore a few fps wont make much difference to me. saying that i do like to know what factors and elements are responsible for certain changes. when you are learning from a sinlge source then you are subject to a single point of view and opinion, this is great if that source is good and trust worthy, you are in trouble if it is a poor source and you are not in a position to question that information

 

The follwoing is the process i followed ( havent had the chance to shoot any of the reloads yet)

 

i have collected brass from factory ammo that i have fired from my rifle and i have the deluxe die set from lee. I basically sort the brass into three groups ranging on case weights, i also sort my bullets into 3 groups based on length. I resize the fire formed brass and trim the cases, i clean the primer pocket etc. I use n130 powder and 60gr vmax heads with federal primers. At this stage i have stayed to 0.5 gr above the min powder charge and just above the min col as i am not sure what the max col is for my rifle ( the lee reloading manual unless i have missed it doesnt show a range just the min value. does the overall dimension shown in the .223 diagram indicate the max oal for the .223 this is shown as 2.26" and the listed min is 2.244, i am in the midlle of this range.

 

 

i do have acces to a chrono and i will check the results but for me the main test will be the grouping, i am not looking bench rest standards just something that you feel confient when you squeeze the trigger.

 

regards

keith

[SNAP SHOT 194]

in a factory rifle there is absolutely no need to weigh the cases, different case if the rifle is built to the tight tolerences of a bench rest gun.

 

the main things you can do is clean the primer pockets, and deburr the flashhole,

 

trim all to spec. length, neck size only... and deburr the inside and outside of the case neck.

 

the next is to get consistent pressure when seating the primer,

 

powder charge to the same weight, throughout the batch, no variation

 

seat the bullet head, rotate the case when the bullet is seated a little to improve concentricity.

[dicehorn 38]

Hello Keith

 

Thanks for your informed response. I see you have a technical approach to your reloading procedures and I therefore tip my hat to you. Yes you may only have a factory barrel and not a custom barrel but that should not prevent you from fine tuning your rifle to be within a gnats crotchet of a custom barrel. One of my two 22.250 with a factory barrel and a few off the shelf extras has shot a sub .75" at 500 yds and a few times sub 1" which is comparable to your run of the mill expensive custom barrel.

 

Whilst I appreciate that that in ordinary hunting situations a rifle that shoots .5" at 100 yds will also kill anything from 2 to 300 yds. But for some "That's good enough" is fine but for others "I'm sure I can get this better" can take reloading to a higher level.

 

Please carry on weighing your cases - you may not see the difference at 100/200 yds but you will notice the difference at further ranges. Also you wont get 'flyers' that the "thats good enough" have to contend with.

 

Peter

[SNAP SHOT 194]

if you have handloading for competion by, glen d. zediker,

 

he puts a good point across, that many handloaders seperate by weight only because they have scales,

 

And states that it the primer pockets are clean, flash holes deburred, and case necks chamfered, then these are the best ways of improving consistancy..... and accuracy...

 

If going to extreme lengths to see if your brass is good enough, then he suggests wall thickness of the cases as the most important factor.

 

uniformity, body concentricity, neck concentricity, neck turning......

 

If you get pleasure from weighing the cases by all means go ahead, everyone is different, i strive for the best accuracy i can get,

 

and i'm always seeing how i can improve the accuracy..... but when is enough, enough........???? now i'm not here to say don't do it....

 

thats for you to decide, but i'd rather be shooting than spending the extra time at a bench......

 

 

 

i pulled one of the shots a little below, other wise this woulda been a single hole..... 5 shots i might add........

 

.208" at 100 yards.... nearly into the .1's

 

 

all the best, hope you achieve good things.....

 

 

Snap.

 

[provarmint 25]

"One of my two 22.250 with a factory barrel and a few off the shelf extras has shot a sub .75" at 500 yds"

 

 

Thats UK Benchrest record standard.

[dicehorn 38]

"One of my two 22.250 with a factory barrel and a few off the shelf extras has shot a sub .75" at 500 yds"

 

 

Thats UK Benchrest record standard.

 

It may be near - the difference is that the benchrest boys can repeat it - I seldom shoot sub 1". On the other hand my other 22.250 (a more expensive factory rifle has difficulty in sub 1" at 300 yds - I am soon to change its barrel for one of the manufacturers's heavy varmint barrels.

[quicksilver 0]

Fired my first reloads today, they definately left the barrel and hit the target. I guess you can count that as a success. This will be a work in progress