pet ferrets or proper working ferrets

[comanche 2,801]

if they are fed om rabbs alot they dont lay up , they kill you get amark dig it and they either move on to the bext ,som ekil so quick you have to no what to look for

Ah so them long digs to my mates ,rabbit -fed ,line bred poleys are all in the mind then . Thank Got for that .

[stealthy1 3,964]

I think I'm only an extreme hunter because I don't have a television.So in the evening once the self abuse is over (5to 10 seconds ) I rely on THL for entertainment and intelligent debate .

 

Ooh now talking of inherited working abilities in freds. Anyone think that since everyone started using locators there are too many ferrets that go in hard and lay-up ?

I'm gonna duck now !

 

 

The folk that dont use a locator would'nt know if their ferret is layed up, because they sit for six hours waiting for their ferrets to re-apear, one day, I think the phrase they use is, its going deep

[Leeview 787]

Because if you selectively breed (as in for working ability) you increase the chance of that ability being enhanced in every generation you breed, ergo mere breeding cycles = more enhancement.

 

That's if hunting ability is genetic.

 

If it isn't, it doesn't matter.

Which is what your post seems to be saying.

now weve locked horns on this one many times in the past My thoughts being "best worker to best worker" every time to produce workers

You on the other hand maintain there's no such thing as a working gene,so why do we get better working ferrets by my method of breeding than just from inexperienced ferrets?

Y.I.S Leeview

[TOMO 25,148]

lee your wasting ya time mate. those of us that work our animals know its the only way, worker to worker.

 

just let the rest belive what they want. i think chalkies ealier post said it all , when he bought those lab ferts years ago. all the best TOMO

[droid 11]

now weve locked horns on this one many times in the past My thoughts being "best worker to best worker" every time to produce workers

You on the other hand maintain there's no such thing as a working gene,so why do we get better working ferrets by my method of breeding than just from inexperienced ferrets?

Y.I.S Leeview

 

Yes, we have.

 

So what is your explanation of the statement you made earlier that the number of generations you selectively breed make no difference to the working ability of the offspring.

 

Because that's not how genetics re selective breeding works.

 

And I'm not sure you can construct a valid argument from one piece of anecdotal evidence.

[whin 463]

driod do you work your ferrets and have you worked them in shitty conditions in the hill country up here in the borders, cause genetics doesnt work the best way to get good stock or try is of ferrets with good instinct easy handled and go deep in some warrens cause it aint no fun digging 4 foot plus for the fucher to move on ,i rabbited for a living per head, like lobster fishing , and you soon found out what ferrets worked and what never and what bolted day in and day out , and you soon learned what to breed of and BELIEVE i wouldnt take the chance of not breeding non worker to no worker even tho it caan work just wouldnt go down that road ,you have abench mark with working animals and you try and keep it to that standard EVEN THO IT IS HARD IN A COUNTRY WITH SILLY LAWS AT TIMES ADIOS ENTERTAINIG BUT NOT ALOT OF DEPTH AND BACK BONE IN THESE CONVERAITIONS IE HUNTING

[comanche 2,801]

I think I'm only an extreme hunter because I don't have a television.So in the evening once the self abuse is over (5to 10 seconds ) I rely on THL for entertainment and intelligent debate .

 

Ooh now talking of inherited working abilities in freds. Anyone think that since everyone started using locators there are too many ferrets that go in hard and lay-up ?

I'm gonna duck now !

 

 

The folk that dont use a locator would'nt know if their ferret is layed up, because they sit for six hours waiting for their ferrets to re-apear, one day, I think the phrase they use is, its going deep

No the phrase is "laid -up"(or in he case of my mate's poleys "That XXXX thing is stuck again ") . You see Droid ferrets have been laying -up long before the first decent electric crutch was marketed .Yes we relied on liners ,dogs marking and our own nose and ears to tell us where the lay-up was .And yes we had to read the lie of the warren to be aware of blind -spots that a ferret might wander

from .And yes if it meant waiting all day or checKing every day for a fortnight we did it .You did'nt go home coz you'd miss the pub ,footy or your Mum.Ferrets ,contrary to the opinions of some locator orientated modern gurus were not habitualy abandoned .You might not believe it but people were getting attached to their ferrets long before 1982!

But just as you as an angler must understand that while a fish is sometimes deeply hooked it is something you strive to avoid and minimise by technique and choice of end-tackle . Or choice of ferret and use of quiet field-craft.

Now in shallow easily dug burrows a ferret that layed -up was'nt a problem and some folk did -probably still do -fill the bag with lots of short-sharp digs to their ferrets . In fact there was even a branch of the game that used big ( often specially -bred ,so genetic theoryists take note!) hob line ferrets with the express purpose of digging .This represents a fairly specialist branch of the sport though.

Now we enter the world of buts and more buts . If you read a few of those "country ways rememberered" type books you will realise that up the average country labourer on an estate did'nt get a lot of time for ferreting -mayber a short sunday afternoon session and Boxing Day.

A ferret that habitually laid-up under those circumstances would have been considered ruinous to the sport and the larder .

Likewise ,what poacher would have sustained a line of ferrets that got stuck all the time when what he really needed was fast soft -mouthed ferrets that allowed him to be away from the forbidden land quickly.

My friend prides himself on the strain of polecat ferret he's bred for some years .They are fast ,they bolt the quick rabbits but sadly are a bit hard on the slow ones . He values their gung-ho attitude whilst I pray that the warren is a shallow one everytime he enters them .

My white strain tend to be a bit soft -late starters too- but if faced with a difficult burrow or situation where digging is'nt practical they come into their own as horror of horrors they will sometimes lose interest in a stuck rabbit . Better than a ten foot dig through chalk or breaking-up someones barn floor though.

So,for general all-round rabbiting we need something tame , the size of a polecat, a good hunter but not as good a hunter as polecat. I know lets get some polecats and BY SELECTIVE BREEDING create something called a ferret !

 

"What do ya mean someone thought of it first ?".

In my semi- ignorance but based on my own experience I have to suggest that the Stock-men,with their inbred instinct for seat -of -the- pants genetics , have the high ground on this one . Having said that I'm sure the example of CHALKWARRENS specially bred pacifist ferrets represents an extreme but should possibly taken as a warning .

Edited November 11, 2009 by comanche

[whin 463]

big post for a short anser , but trufully only a fool puts a [bANNED TEXT] sticker down a ten foot dig, had polecats years ago little b*****ds wood hole up on the hard shaely land i hunted alot , a good gerret will kll you get a mark and move on its up to the owner if he wants to dig ten foot i wouldnt , 6 ye but ten well a fools errand , a good ferret will bolt kill get a mark pn box then move on if fed plenty meat they shopuldnt want to hang about all day if they do leave them and come back or gut arabbit to entice them at hole, ive had afew that killed and stayed but usaly when there more than one rabb , i like white ferets and sansys they have been my best workers overall polecats fine to , but i prefer my white ferrets and sandys

[Kay 3,709]

I think Comanche made a valid point about how often you actually get out with your ferrets .

 

I would say the average ferreter who does a paid job 5 days a week is only going to get the chance maybe once a week to get out as most folks have other family commitments as well

 

So over a season thats maybe less than 20 outings , half days at that , bagging no more than say 4 rabbits , i am not seeing the huge bags being reported on here like a few yrs back

 

totally different if you can work your ferrets any day of the week & your permissions over run with them , then of course your ferrets are going to work like stink they have summat to work to

[Leeview 787]

Yes, we have.

 

So what is your explanation of the statement you made earlier that the number of generations you selectively breed make no difference to the working ability of the offspring.

 

Because that's not how genetics re selective breeding works.

 

And I'm not sure you can construct a valid argument from one piece of anecdotal evidence.

droid my explanation is that I dont need to continually breed year in year out,I work my ferrets for several seasons sometimes up to 8yr old as long as their still up to the job,so dont need to have others at 6-5-4-3-2-1yr old just for the sake of breeding and it does nt make any difference to working ability if anything it gives you a better/longer look at what is worthy of breeding from

Y.I.S Leeview

[Leeview 787]

had pockets of myxi about the estate early this season but not widespread, odd strain this one with rabbits having "drawn heads" but still carrying body weight? not like a healthy rabbit but not the ususal skin and bones. did part of a long hedgerow last weekend bolting rabbits and never bolted so many stoatsand rats in one day for years,the rats were above us in the hedgerow

Y.I.S Leeview

[droid 11]

droid my explanation is that I dont need to continually breed year in year out,I work my ferrets for several seasons sometimes up to 8yr old as long as their still up to the job,so dont need to have others at 6-5-4-3-2-1yr old just for the sake of breeding and it does nt make any difference to working ability if anything it gives you a better/longer look at what is worthy of breeding from

Y.I.S Leeview

Which is a perfectly sensible course of action. As you'll be aware another of my hobby-horses is unneeded breeding .

 

Doesn't answer my point re selective breeding and how it works though.

[whin 463]

you are [bANNED TEXT] there chalki ive had more cash in three visits to diffrent fancy gardens than adays rabbiting but in the early part of the ninties we had box traps ferrets dogs rifle , so a good week was 3 to 400 but alas it lasted two seasons a pound a rabb and 2 pound from zoos , there alot more money in nice private gardens and every year i have a few regulars, take my old bitch and few ferrets catch a few get a cup of tea and see them sometime again ,best way ,but in the early ninties lauder and surrounding areas was alive, so we sold them per head plus i worked full time as carpenter so was a good turn and come dead of winter we harvested whatever we could sell ,may never see them days again unless i travel ,but good while it lasted , i had to conn guys to come as it was ahard days graft digging killing in damp weather , best week ever was 453 with dogs ferets and box traps ,but yes alot more profitable nowadays doing gardens and areas were people cant get them easily thats when a good dog and god ferrets are a must cause they are never in the easy places

[Leeview 787]

Which is a perfectly sensible course of action. As you'll be aware another of my hobby-horses is unneeded breeding .

 

Doesn't answer my point re selective breeding and how it works though.

OK I and a few other posters that do work their ferrets with a passion have already stated that best worker to the best worker is the way to breed to get workers so why does nt that answer your point?

Can you explain selective breeding and how it works to me?

Y.I.S Leeview

[droid 11]

OK I and a few other posters that do work their ferrets with a passion have already stated that best worker to the best worker is the way to breed to get workers so why does nt that answer your point?

Can you explain selective breeding and how it works to me?

Y.I.S Leeview

 

Because you reckon you get the effect from one generation. Most people breed for several generations to get the standard they want.

 

Yes, I can explain how selective breeding works. However, you've not accepted anything I've told you about genetics up to now, so I'm not convinced it's worth the effort.

 

Try Wikipedia.