just curious

[dumbo 0]

personal preference . one mans meat and all that. one thing that does stand out-i have yet to see a terrier with a better nose. :search:

 

YET TO SEE A TERRIER WITH A BETTER NOSE????? MAYBE YOU AIN'T SEEN THAT MANY TERRIERS??

 

And maybe he has.....

 

This is the thing that also stands out for me too. Some but not all plummers are very houndy in their approach to hunting. Some of the dogs are more houndy in appearance as well. I have a male plummer here that for me has an outstanding nose. The best i have seen on a terrier, and anybody who witnesses it says how good it is. I had the chance to run him on a hunt with a pack of harriers the other week on a stretch of river. I was a bit apprehensive at first but he didn't disappoint and the hunt were pleasantly surprised at how good a nose he has for a terrier.

 

What keeps is saying above is spot on. I can't see why there is all this reinventing the wheel talk. Why would anyone want to reinvent something that doesn't need changing. There are subtle differences and thats about it. As for just a jack russell - again it is important not to generalise. Some plummers are very russell like others not so. There is still a difference in type.

you just said it why would anyone want to reinvent something that doesnt need changing this is one of the questions im trying to get answers to what was brian plummer thinking that the russel needed he must of thought it was lacking in some way otherwise he wouldnt have tried to improve on it whether or not he actually succeeded only he will know i suppose .but using beagle in the breeding i think could have been to improve nose what else could beagle blood bring to the breed thats not already there .as for not generaliseing there is a lot of difference in type in russells across the breed like i keep stating this is not a dig at plummers

 

Anything can be improved upon. If we all adopted the approach that it couldn't then we wouldn't be as we are as humans. plummer obviously thought he could do something more with the stock he had. so why not try. don't think he was trying to reinvent anything really.

[Hepher 86]

HE WASN'T "REINVENTING" HE WAS INVENTING A WHOLE NEW TYPE OF DOG WITH A MISHMASH OF BREEDS PURELY FOR PROFIT OR SOME SORT OF GAIN AS YOU SAY YOURSELF IT DON'T DO ANYTHING EXTRA SPECIAL THAT OTHER TERRIERS CAN'T DO? SEEMS HE JUST WANTED A TERRIER NAMED AFTER HIMSELF EGOTIST MAYBE? WHO KNOWS? ONLY 1 THAT KNOWS IS PLUMMER AND I DON'T THINK HE'LL BE ABLE TO ENLIGHTEN US ANYTIME SOON! AND WHEN YOU SAY ANYTHING CAN BE IMPROVED UPON, I DON'T QUITE SEE HOW THE PLUMMER HAS IMPROVED ANYTHING IN THE WORKING TERRIER WORLD,I.E STANDARD OF WORK. ALL I SEE IS HOW IT HAS LINED MANY POCKETS WITH A FEW COINS. IF YOU LIKE EM THEN NO PROBLEM BUT I DEFINATELY DON'T SEE WHAT PLUMMER HAS IMPROVED BY CREATING THIS TYPE OF DOG. JMO.

[dumbo 0]

HE WASN'T "REINVENTING" HE WAS INVENTING A WHOLE NEW TYPE OF DOG WITH A MISHMASH OF BREEDS PURELY FOR PROFIT OR SOME SORT OF GAIN AS YOU SAY YOURSELF IT DON'T DO ANYTHING EXTRA SPECIAL THAT OTHER TERRIERS CAN'T DO? SEEMS HE JUST WANTED A TERRIER NAMED AFTER HIMSELF EGOTIST MAYBE? WHO KNOWS? ONLY 1 THAT KNOWS IS PLUMMER AND I DON'T THINK HE'LL BE ABLE TO ENLIGHTEN US ANYTIME SOON! AND WHEN YOU SAY ANYTHING CAN BE IMPROVED UPON, I DON'T QUITE SEE HOW THE PLUMMER HAS IMPROVED ANYTHING IN THE WORKING TERRIER WORLD,I.E STANDARD OF WORK. ALL I SEE IS HOW IT HAS LINED MANY POCKETS WITH A FEW COINS. IF YOU LIKE EM THEN NO PROBLEM BUT I DEFINATELY DON'T SEE WHAT PLUMMER HAS IMPROVED BY CREATING THIS TYPE OF DOG. JMO.

 

IMO no he wasn't inventing a whole new type of dog, he was inventing a new type/breed of terrier that is essentially a terrier. Expecting something extra special is just not realistic is it? What do you want it to do - catch and cook your dinner? Be handy wouldn't it!

 

Fair enough. Again never did I say he improved on anything. I am not arguing anything you said in your last post.Just that surely that is the aim when you are breeding - to improve. Hence anything can be improved upon. Imo no one will ever know if he did improve the working ability and plummer is not the first or the last to cash in on his terriers either. There is some real shite about from all breeds isn't there not? I just happen to like em as dogs and they do me ok.

[stormyboy 1,352]

I DUNNO HOW YOU CAN SAY THAT THE PLUMMER HAS A SUPERIOUR NOSE TO ALL OTHER TERRIERS, IS A PLUMMERS WORK NOT PRIMARILY ON TOP?WE'VE HEARD OF THE FEW THAT WORK BELOW AND IT IS A FEW, I HAVE TERRIERS WHO CAN FIND ANYTHING ON TOP AND IN THE BIGGEST PLACES BELOW GROUND, AND HOW 1 DOG CAN BE SINGLED OUT FROM WITHIN A PACK OF HOUNDS TO PLEASE THE HUNT? I RECKON YOUR'E JUST FULL OF WAFFLE. I'VE WORKED MY TERRIERS ALONGSIDE HOUNDS, I RUN MY DOGS ON RIVER BANKS AND THEY GET THEIR SHARE OF MINK AND RATS, THEY MARK WELL AND HAVEN'T LET ME DOWN, BUT THEN IT'S ALL ABOUT TRUST IN YOUR DOG AS WELL. JUST BECAUSE PLUMMERS HAVE HOUND BLOOD IN THEM DOES'NT MEAN THEY'LL HAVE A BETTER NOSE THAN OTHER TERRIERS. IMO IF YOU WANT A RATTING DOG GET A PLUMMER THAT'S WHHAT THEY WERE BRED FOR, IF YA WANT A DIGGING DOG GO FOR 1 OF THE BREEDS THAT ARE BRED FOR THAT PURPOSE, BUT A DIGGING DOG WILL KILL RATS AS WELL. IF PLUMMERS WERE SUCH A GREAT ALLROUND TERRIER WE WOULD SEE MANY MORE OF THEM BEING USED AS DIGGING DOGS AND BY HUNTS FOR TERRIERWORK. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE IS NO PLUMMERS THAT GO TO GROUND AND STAY UNTIL DUG TO BUT THEY ARE A BIT LIKE ROCKING HORSE SHIT.

i think you are spot on hepher- you "DUNNO" how i can say the plummer has a superior nose. because i never said it. if you read the post-not too hard-its not very long and i tried to keep the words simple. (Maybe i should have used CAPS?). i said i have never seen a better nose.

and yes i have seen a few terriers doing all sorts of things! i dont however feel the need to brag about anything as i have a perfectly adequate set of balls and dont need a dog to prove my machismo to any one.

how many plummers have you seen working by the way?

[stormyboy 1,352]

you just started an argument - you wait and see!!!! :headshot::

told you so didnt i?

[Guest rodsmith]

you just started an argument - you wait and see!!!! :headshot::

told you so didnt i?

 

[matty73 4]

theres no need to rise to each others opinions because thats all they are peoples honest opinions

[stormyboy 1,352]

theres no need to rise to each others opinions because thats all they are peoples honest opinions

A lot of "opinions" on the plummer terrier are formed without any knowledge of the breed or having seen one at work. How can someone have an honest unbiased opinion on these dogs without actually knowing the subject they are talking about? Because they dislike plummer? Because so & so said so? (who probably knows nothing about them either). One thing i can assure you of is that once most folk own and work one, they rarely keep any other type. some are better than others the same as in patts,bulls,russells or any other type of dog.

[webby 31]

They are a terrier the same as any other type of terrier, some people like them, some don't - just as other people have particular preferences for other types of terrier. A lot of people judge them just because their name and their dislike for the man who created the breed and because of this they disregard & ridicule the dogs and those who post about them. If you take time to see them hunt you might just change your mind; a lot of the people who have so much to say about them have never even seen one work.

 

I happen to like them, I hate all the politics that go with them, and all the negativity, especially on this forum, but if you're prepared to put up with that you will find that they are a cracking little terrier. They have a great nose and plenty of drive. I grew up with russells all my life, but since keeping plummers I wouldnt go back to only russells, not that I don't like russells, cos I do, and I still have one

 

I wouldn't say that as a terrier they can do anything that other terriers can't - they do what is expected of them as a terrier, as you would expect of any terrier, and as with all breeds and types of terriers, there are good ones and there are bad ones.

 

Why would you expect them to do something that other terriers can't Matty73 - would you expect that of any other type of terrier, if they work as a terrier should, surely thats all that's required? They are a strain of a few different well-known breeds, if you like, but why would you expect them to do what other terriers can't?

 

One of mine, a pup I bred, now 18 months old

 

 

 

Well thats a cracker but when u consider conformation of breed, that dog looks like a patt/fell bred down through a predominently brown dog. after all how old is the breed of plummer because make no mistake it is no where near as useful as a pre ban staying dog. unless someone can show us a pre ban dug to plummer. At the end of the day it is personal preferance but a dog in my kennel must be able to earn its keep doing all the tasks of its job!

[Guest rodsmith]

im not slating the plummer one bit as ive never owned one OR seen one work but my question is- if the breed is all what everyone says about them,then why do more people not use them as an earth terrier??

all i ever hear of them doing is ratting,have never heard someone say "such and such has a decent plummer that works to ground."

[lakeman 12]

HE WASN'T "REINVENTING" HE WAS INVENTING A WHOLE NEW TYPE OF DOG WITH A MISHMASH OF BREEDS PURELY FOR PROFIT OR SOME SORT OF GAIN AS YOU SAY YOURSELF IT DON'T DO ANYTHING EXTRA SPECIAL THAT OTHER TERRIERS CAN'T DO? SEEMS HE JUST WANTED A TERRIER NAMED AFTER HIMSELF EGOTIST MAYBE? WHO KNOWS? ONLY 1 THAT KNOWS IS PLUMMER AND I DON'T THINK HE'LL BE ABLE TO ENLIGHTEN US ANYTIME SOON! AND WHEN YOU SAY ANYTHING CAN BE IMPROVED UPON, I DON'T QUITE SEE HOW THE PLUMMER HAS IMPROVED ANYTHING IN THE WORKING TERRIER WORLD,I.E STANDARD OF WORK. ALL I SEE IS HOW IT HAS LINED MANY POCKETS WITH A FEW COINS. IF YOU LIKE EM THEN NO PROBLEM BUT I DEFINATELY DON'T SEE WHAT PLUMMER HAS IMPROVED BY CREATING THIS TYPE OF DOG. JMO.

 

spot on.

[Keeps 403]

im not slating the plummer one bit as ive never owned one OR seen one work but my question is- if the breed is all what everyone says about them,then why do more people not use them as an earth terrier??

all i ever hear of them doing is ratting, have never heard someone say "such and such has a decent plummer that works to ground."

 

Possibly because people's opinions on them are formed by the kind of comments you get on here, without ever having seen one work...

 

Compared to the numbers of patterdales, russells, lakies etc being worked, plummers are amongst a minority to start with, so the numbers of them being worked to ground is bound to be far less again. I know a few people who do work them to ground, most of whom don't come on forums and post about it.

 

The sire of my pup pictured earlier, sadly no longer alive.

 

 

 

 

[fireman 10,794]

Compared to the numbers of patterdales, russells, lakies etc being worked, plummers are amongst a minority to start with, so the numbers of them being worked to ground is bound to be far less again. I know a few people who do work them to ground, most of whom don't come on forums and post about it.

]

 

And the ones that do do have a few plummer owners and even a mod on a plummer site try to discredit them and make them out to be liers.I know it's happened to me and to be honest if thats the sort of support you get when just trying to post a story and show a few of the doubters some can be dug to then no one can moan about others feeling that the breed is nothing more than a ratter at best.

Edited July 9, 2009 by fireman

[WILF 44,408]

What is the big hang up with Plummer owners about if they do real terrier work, they were never bred to do real terrier work, they were bred to go ratting with........if you want a rat dog then you could do worse than own a Plummer.

 

Whats the big deal with you lot, if you want an earth dog then get something that fits the bill from proven digging dogs, if you want a Plummer to go ratting with then own a Plummer........easy in it!!

 

[fireman 10,794]

I did wilf,both my bitches parents were/are(sire died at work)proven earth dogs with many digs under their belts.Not getting into a row and speaking from my own point but i don't have unlimited earthwork but a little so i wanted a dog that i could ferret,mooch,rat and dig with and my plummers tick all these boxes with me.I can spend a morning ratting and then a afternoon ferreting with no worries for the ferrets safety,have a dig when somethings at home or just have them running rough flushing to the runners.So for me it was there all round caperbilities being the reason i opted for this breed.