Ha ha, Half of them iv'e seen about weren't worth a w**k! And you don't see so many proper working borders about these days. I was thinking about a Patt but they are quite common and i'd like something different, hence the reason I went for the beddy type. What do you think of Plummer terriers? They get slated a lot for fox work but surely there is some grafters out there? Thanks for reply, atb.