david901
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Posts posted by david901
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Would you know what that is?????
I understand where you're coming from, BUT a good bolting dog is NOT just a second rate digging dog.If a terrier is close enough to mix it, then the fox shouldn't have room to bolt, well not on a regular basis. If your dog is regularly letting foxes past it to bolt, imo its lacking in something. I can see there uses and iv owned such dogs but I would never want kennels full of that type
I feel like I'm going round in circles so I think i'm going to disappear again
All the best
What is it then, a clever digging dog?
I know what my idea of a clever digging dog/terrier is, and giving fox space to bolt ain't in my idea. Is that your way of thinking? Just asking mate, like I said iv kenneled bolting dogs and have no axe to grind with them or folk who keep them
Sometimes a terrier will understand that a bolt is what the hunter requires and will do what it can to accomplish this.
Sometimes dogs are that smart.
Don't mean to disrespect anyone, but I've seen dogs smarter than the owners who don't work with their tykes but seem to not understand the easiest way to catch a fox.....and make things difficult for the dog, such as digging directly on top of the terrier rather than a foot or so behind it and the quarry etc....
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i find the hard terriers do a good job of bolting fox when they steam into them. Wereas some fox will sit in a stop all day if the terrier works them from a distance.
Depends on the terrier mate.
All the best.
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I understand where you're coming from, BUT a good bolting dog is NOT just a second rate digging dog.If a terrier is close enough to mix it, then the fox shouldn't have room to bolt, well not on a regular basis. If your dog is regularly letting foxes past it to bolt, imo its lacking in something. I can see there uses and iv owned such dogs but I would never want kennels full of that type
I feel like I'm going round in circles so I think i'm going to disappear again
All the best
What is it then, a clever digging dog?
Would you know what that is?????
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If a terrier is close enough to mix it, then the fox shouldn't have room to bolt, well not on a regular basis. If your dog is regularly letting foxes past it to bolt, imo its lacking in something. I can see there uses and iv owned such dogs but I would never want kennels full of that type
I understand where you're coming from, BUT a good bolting dog is NOT just a second rate digging dog.
I feel like I'm going round in circles so I think i'm going to disappear again
All the best
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foxdropper thats the second time you have given this offer. hats off to you
ive had three plummers in recent years one was not up to the task one was given to my son and the last one i keep for working allround. ferretting and the odd fox. she is well past it now and on the big side for most folk but could be dug to she was a very handy terrier for me and made me look good on some more than once 
so i dont own a plummer that is up to the task at the moment. so i'm out. however if you repeat this offer one more time for next season i have a very good prospect that will be getting started next season. not a full plummer but hey near enough. 
. the other problem i have with your offer is you have probably culled better than ive owned as i have a notion on bolting foxes if at all possible. like some others on this thread i also have unlimited permision due to my work so its not difficult to find work for my dogs i'm enjoying this thread and following with interest. my old bitch Sassy in her prime. tethered up. she carries a lot of bull so not favoured by some.
How old is she now mate?
The years seem to march on eh?
One day you may get a good 'un.....LOL
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Your not making sense a more determined terrier would stay and be dug too , more determined a mutt is the longer will stay , not getting this it's like your contradicting your self , a bolting terrier too me is a dog that can find in big places , sit back and bay and after so long leave it , and it is correct that half of it is down too the fox and where your working it from , as a drain is 90 % chance of bolting , depending on the dog and the fox ,
I don't mean to disrespect you mate, but a GOOD bolting terrier doesn't just sit back and bay from 2 foot away.
A GOOD bolting terrier makes the fox bolt[if it can].
Not all foxes will bolt, but most will if given the opportunity/incentive.
JMO.
Cheers
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Thats why i bought a rifle .This will rage on forever but to me a terrier is more than a cover buster ,drain yapper but thats just my take on it .Fatman says any terrier will work a fox ,true to some extent but how many can be relied on to see it through no matter what ,only the best and there lies your answer to why passion comes into it. Unless you are paid then laziness is the only criteria preventing anyone from owning the real deal.
Foxdropper I admire your passion for the working terrier.
At one time I was the same. Some folk go about terrier work in a half-hearted way,
but its passion that makes a line/strain/breed into something special.
All the best mate
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A digging dog enters earth fox bolts job done,bolting terrier enters earth fox doesn't bolt after 40 mins bolting terrier walks out of earth enter digging dog job done.I don't live in an area with rock piles I know some deep hard to dig earths but not many undigable ones a bolting only terrier is of limited use to the majority of working terrier owners I know,and most of them have had plenty of years of experience behind them jmho.
I respect your view mate, but a bolting terrier, sorry good bolting terrier will get the job most times apart from pregnant vixens or places that are too tight.
I think the problem is [in my opinion] is people think a soft not committed terrier is a "bolting" dog, but in my view, a good bolting terrier is determined committed worker that gets the job done.
Just my opinion mate.
All the best.
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I recon most of the time it's up to the fox what happens.....
Hi mate
Not necessarily true. A good,experienced tyke [ and terrierman] can often get a result they desire.
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May I ask why did you get out of the terrier game ?
Hi Marshman,
After doing it for 25 years I felt I had accomplished all that I wanted. Plus I had a cracking wee bitch that I didn't think I would better.
Once she got too old, any other dog would have been an anticlimax.
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I have noticed on this forum that the most vociferous terriermen prefer digging dogs over bolting terriers.
As someone who hunted fox with terriers for over 25 years, I had a soft spot for a good bolting dog.
I had some dogs that would stay whatever time it took to dig, but as much as I admired them, I saw the value of a dog that could bolt a fox.
I should clarify I don't have a terrier now, and its just a personal opinion.
I understand that if you have a preference, that's fine but I do think that with experience you can see the benefit of both types of working terrier.
Cheers
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I find these posts quite amusing. Its been about 13 or 14 years since I stopped earthwork with terriers.
I was at it for over 25 years and I find there is some amount of P$sh written about terriers. IMO.
Some of the most successful terriermen , ie catch around 100 foxes per season use bolting terriers and only dig as a last resort.
Their dogs rarely get badly marked up and they are capable of getting called out an earth.
These guys have been doing this for maybe half a century, but if they came on here they probably would get slagged off by all the keyboard warriors on here.
Not everyone works their terriers in the same way. Some have a dog that will stay all day until dug to....I've had dogs like this and enjoyed them.
Others prefer a terrier to work its fox and bolt it without fuss.........I've had dogs like this too and also enjoyed them.
It should be each to their own. As long as your successful at what you do and enjoy it, what does it matter.
For the record, about 30 years ago I met some lads from the north of England with a Plummer dog. These boys dug a lot of quarry with it and from what I remember rated it highly.
The bloodline of this dog will still be around somewhere I should imagine so I would imagine that some lads with Plummers will have decent earthdogs, but as I say I have been away from the terrier scene for quite a few years so maybe I'm wrong.
good post david , i also done many many years foxing , never less than 100+ a year , one of my best grafters was a little russel bitch she would stand off & bay but mixed it when needed that bitch bolted more foxes than any of my fell types ,never got stuck & i could call her out or stay untull dug she would be laughed at on here but she more than earned her keep god bless the little girl
Thanks mate. I myself never did more than about 50 in a year.
After reading some comments, it seems bolting dogs are not thought of as highly as stayers which I find strange. But it takes allsorts I suppose.
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I find these posts quite amusing. Its been about 13 or 14 years since I stopped earthwork with terriers.
I was at it for over 25 years and I find there is some amount of P$sh written about terriers. IMO.
Some of the most successful terriermen , ie catch around 100 foxes per season use bolting terriers and only dig as a last resort.
Their dogs rarely get badly marked up and they are capable of getting called out an earth.
These guys have been doing this for maybe half a century, but if they came on here they probably would get slagged off by all the keyboard warriors on here.
Not everyone works their terriers in the same way. Some have a dog that will stay all day until dug to....I've had dogs like this and enjoyed them.
Others prefer a terrier to work its fox and bolt it without fuss.........I've had dogs like this too and also enjoyed them.
It should be each to their own. As long as your successful at what you do and enjoy it, what does it matter.
For the record, about 30 years ago I met some lads from the north of England with a Plummer dog. These boys dug a lot of quarry with it and from what I remember rated it highly.
The bloodline of this dog will still be around somewhere I should imagine so I would imagine that some lads with Plummers will have decent earthdogs, but as I say I have been away from the terrier scene for quite a few years so maybe I'm wrong.
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Thanks pal. Watched the first DVD many years ago, but not seen the second one.
I may order a copy.
Cheers
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Well done mate.
Andy breeds some nice goshawks. Have you tried her at crows/rooks yet.
Some excellent flights at these especially with a smaller female.
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Hi Huntmad
My old redtail took a couple of pheasant and ducks plus a few moorhens. Feather is not really their strongpoint but they can do it.
My red would soar above me at times and I often wondered if I could put up pheasant when she was above me then I would get a beautiful stoop.
She would do it to rabbits but I never got the opportunity with pheasant or duck.
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Hi Huntmad,
I totally agree with you regarding manning them when they are too heavy.
A lot depends on the nature of the bird, but this can increase resentment of the falconer if the bird is enforced to endure hours of manning if its not ready.
I also like to set up "easy" kills with a lure or carcase etc, with the bird when its ready.
As long as you don't rob it of its catch it helps get rid of any frustration on the hawks part and lets it find out what its meant to do.
If you are going for hare, I would use a large fur lure or better still hare carcase to allow it to gain confidence.
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I use the cheapest knife I can get with about a 3 inch blade.
I don't get expensive ones anymore as I tend to lose them too easily.
At least if it only cost a fiver it doesn't make me cry!!!! Well not as much
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I had a good start but then I hit a bad patch then a month of bad weather. I think the realisation that my current hawk is temperamental around dogs and isn't ever going to make the grade I desire has resulted in me losing motivation to keep doing as much as possible. I certainly haven't gone looking for hares like I planned to. It appears obtaining a harris at a year old that hasn't done much or seen a dog isn't the best of purchases!!!!!.
It's not the end of the world ive learnt a lot from flying her over the last couple of seasons which hopefully will help me when I start with a fresh hawk next season. My mates hawk is on form at the moment putting in good performances but won't have a dog near her so that might have an impact of how we fly our Hawks next season as I want to mainly fly over a pointer. Probably have to be a case of flying one then the other.
Mate, you could always man the hawk to the dog. It isn't rocket science. It just takes a bit of time and patience.
One of the biggest things to help make a hawk tolerate a dog is rewards.
reward with food when around the the dog.
Getting the dog to flush game usually gets a hawk to tolerate a dog.
Just make sure the dog is well trained and obedient and doesn't run in on a kill.
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I used to do a lot of rockpiles when I lived near Bradford.
If you didn't hunt rockpiles you didn't do a lot of terrier work as most foxes seemed to lie up in them.
Most terriers good in rocks would be fairly hard. You didn't want a dog just to stand off its fox and bay waiting to get dug.
I had a dog stuck a couple of times, but with a lot of help from mates, I got them back out.
At that time the Fell and Moorland Terrier Club was a godsend.
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I won't deal with vets at all I had a real good coursing bitch do her stifle and the vet amputated her good leg and she had to be pts then and tried charging me for the surgery I ended up with a payout but still won't go near a vet now
I understand your concern mate.
Some vets arn't worth a toss, thats why I said go to a good vet that specialises in birds.
Not many about, but a good one is well worth a visit, especially for the sake of the hawk.
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I would suggest take it to a decent avian vet to diagnose the problem.
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You could always make your own out of light plywood.
I have my own homemade box and also a falcon fabrications box.
I found the Falcon fabrications box doesn't clean up as well as the wooden one.
Also I find the perch not far enough from the floor which means the gos tail feathers touch the floor and can get dirty if she messes when travelling.
David
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He asked have you had any big bags ......I can't seem to load pics now but if you search collie whippets on here there is a old post about him for stud with pics he gets good size bags but tbh we only take Wat we can use but have had nights with 20 plus easy
Depends where in the country he is.
20 rabbits in some places is harder going than 50 in others.
So very true mate.
Digging Dogs V Bolting Dogs
in Earthdogs & Working Terriers
Posted
I don't want to enter into an argument over terriers.
Its been years since I've had one, BUT I just wanted to make the point that there is more than one way to skin a cat[ no cats where harmed,,,,lol]
The point I wanted to make is that a good bolting terrier is NOT a failed digging dog.
As I said before, I used to think digging dogs/ killing dogs where the bees knees, but with experience I learned another way.........
All the best.