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'SHOOTING IN' A RIFLE BARREL


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#1 arcpest

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 06:50 pm

Hi all
i just read this on a site www.border-barrels.com about 'SHOOTING IN' A BARREL do any of you do this on your new gun or barrels or is it done from the factory
do you think this needs to be done or not?
This is what they do


'SHOOTING IN' A BARREL

There is much discussion about 'shooting in' a barrel. Everybody seems to have their own way of doing it, so this is a brief monograph about how we do it.
But first, a few words on why 'shooting in' a barrel is necessary. No matter how well lapped or how finely finished the internal surface of the barrel is, the first few bullets down the barrel seem to leave a significant fraction of themselves behind as heavy metal fouling. A subsequent bullet shot up a barrel with heavy metal fouling will tend to press that fouling into the barrel causing dints and roughness in a bore that the barrel maker has gone to a lot of trouble to make smooth and even. So it is important to get all that metal fouling out before shooting another bullet up the barrel.

When we shoot in a barrel, we fire one shot and then use a phosphor bronze brush and Shooters Choice to clean the barrel of powder fouling and loose dirt. Having dried out the barrel with a few patches, we squirt some Forrest bore foam up the barrel and leave it sitting for 24 hours to get out all the metal fouling. There is no way to quickly clean metal fouling out of a barrel and we find Forrest bore foam seems to do the job best as the foam clings to the whole interior surface of the barrel.

After 24 hours the Forrest bore foam has turned dark blue, but all traces of the metal fouling is gone. Now we fire another shot and repeat the process.

We do this about five times. Finally, we fire five shots and then give the barrel a final 24 hour soak in Forrest bore foam. The bore of the barrel will now have been 'conditioned' and metal fouling should be minimal from now on. Yes, we take a week to shoot in a barrel! But there is no quick way to remove heavy metal fouling. Anyone that says there is doesn't have a bore scope!

Using moly coated bullets seems to minimise the metal fouling during this shooting in process and makes it all a lot easier.

For general cleaning after shooting, we use a phosphor bronze brush dipped in Shooters Choice. This is pulled down the barrel from the muzzle a few times to loosen off the powder fouling. The barrel is then cleaned out using dry patches. It is important that the phosphor bronze brush is clean and in good condition. It should be kept in container so that does not pick up any sand and dirt. If the brush collapses on one side, as some makes tend to do, then throw it away and use a new one. A phosphor bronze brush will do no harm to your barrel provided it is free of dirt and in good condition. It is also important to clean out the chamber and the area in front of the locking lugs, just behind the back of the barrel.

I should just say at this point that we are getting no favours or promotional payments for mentioning Forrest bore foam or Shooters Choice. I mention these products because that is what we use - for now. Someday, we may find something that we like better for one reason or another and then we will use that instead.

Forrest Bore Foam is available in the United States as Outers Bore Cleaning foam and is available from WalMart's. In the UK, the distributor is GMK Ltd.

#2 Deker

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 07:08 pm

Hi all
i just read this on a site www.border-barrels.com about 'SHOOTING IN' A BARREL do any of you do this on your new gun or barrels or is it done from the factory
do you think this needs to be done or not?
This is what they do


'SHOOTING IN' A BARREL

There is much discussion about 'shooting in' a barrel. Everybody seems to have their own way of doing it, so this is a brief monograph about how we do it.
But first, a few words on why 'shooting in' a barrel is necessary. No matter how well lapped or how finely finished the internal surface of the barrel is, the first few bullets down the barrel seem to leave a significant fraction of themselves behind as heavy metal fouling. A subsequent bullet shot up a barrel with heavy metal fouling will tend to press that fouling into the barrel causing dints and roughness in a bore that the barrel maker has gone to a lot of trouble to make smooth and even. So it is important to get all that metal fouling out before shooting another bullet up the barrel.

When we shoot in a barrel, we fire one shot and then use a phosphor bronze brush and Shooters Choice to clean the barrel of powder fouling and loose dirt. Having dried out the barrel with a few patches, we squirt some Forrest bore foam up the barrel and leave it sitting for 24 hours to get out all the metal fouling. There is no way to quickly clean metal fouling out of a barrel and we find Forrest bore foam seems to do the job best as the foam clings to the whole interior surface of the barrel.

After 24 hours the Forrest bore foam has turned dark blue, but all traces of the metal fouling is gone. Now we fire another shot and repeat the process.

We do this about five times. Finally, we fire five shots and then give the barrel a final 24 hour soak in Forrest bore foam. The bore of the barrel will now have been 'conditioned' and metal fouling should be minimal from now on. Yes, we take a week to shoot in a barrel! But there is no quick way to remove heavy metal fouling. Anyone that says there is doesn't have a bore scope!

Using moly coated bullets seems to minimise the metal fouling during this shooting in process and makes it all a lot easier.

For general cleaning after shooting, we use a phosphor bronze brush dipped in Shooters Choice. This is pulled down the barrel from the muzzle a few times to loosen off the powder fouling. The barrel is then cleaned out using dry patches. It is important that the phosphor bronze brush is clean and in good condition. It should be kept in container so that does not pick up any sand and dirt. If the brush collapses on one side, as some makes tend to do, then throw it away and use a new one. A phosphor bronze brush will do no harm to your barrel provided it is free of dirt and in good condition. It is also important to clean out the chamber and the area in front of the locking lugs, just behind the back of the barrel.

I should just say at this point that we are getting no favours or promotional payments for mentioning Forrest bore foam or Shooters Choice. I mention these products because that is what we use - for now. Someday, we may find something that we like better for one reason or another and then we will use that instead.

Forrest Bore Foam is available in the United States as Outers Bore Cleaning foam and is available from WalMart's. In the UK, the distributor is GMK Ltd.



If you have the time and patience it isn't going to do any harm.

There are those that say shooting in a barrel is a waste of time, but this needs qualifying! The likes of a .22LR firing sub sonic lead may require hundreds of rounds to break it in properly, but on the other hand if this is all you ever use it for it could be argued there is no need to break it in at all!

Serious fast centrefires will break in, or break a barrel quickly, a good bit of cleaning and copper removal would be useful.

I suspect those that care, want accuracy and can't afford a new barrel every few rounds will do a reasonable job of breaking in a barrel! I also know that a load of people are likely to respond to my post by saying I have never cleaned my 22-250, it has fired 10,000 rounds and shoots in the same hole at 200 yards...yes :hmm: :whistling:

#3 Guest_baldie_*

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 07:41 pm

I wouldn,t guarantee any barrel that wasn,t run in properly. Only idle people dont do it. Would you take a brand new car, or motorbike, and thrash it for 50 miles at top speed, foot to the floor, down the motorway? i wouldn,t...so i dont do it to a barrel. Every gun i,ve ever owned has been run in correctly, and every one, with the right handloads would hold 1/2" at 100 yards, most considerably better. Ignore the fools that tell you their 22-250,s have had thousands down them and never cleaned, but will still put them in 1/2" its utter bollocks.I,ve had to clean these guns, and it takes days, fouling that bad, is actually dangerous.
Its a good way to spend half a day at the range, shooting in a barrel correctly, you get used to the gun [if its new] and hell, we are there to enjoy shooting after all...i really cant see why people see it as a chore?

#4 arcpest

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 08:19 pm

I wouldn,t guarantee any barrel that wasn,t run in properly. Only idle people dont do it. Would you take a brand new car, or motorbike, and thrash it for 50 miles at top speed, foot to the floor, down the motorway? i wouldn,t...so i dont do it to a barrel. Every gun i,ve ever owned has been run in correctly, and every one, with the right handloads would hold 1/2" at 100 yards, most considerably better. Ignore the fools that tell you their 22-250,s have had thousands down them and never cleaned, but will still put them in 1/2" its utter bollocks.I,ve had to clean these guns, and it takes days, fouling that bad, is actually dangerous.
Its a good way to spend half a day at the range, shooting in a barrel correctly, you get used to the gun [if its new] and hell, we are there to enjoy shooting after all...i really cant see why people see it as a chore?



Hi baldie how would you recomend running a .223 heavy barrel in properly

arcpest

Edited by arcpest, 03 March 2008 - 08:19 pm.


#5 young1982

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 08:26 pm

When I got my CZ .17HMR at the end of last year the gun dealer I got it off said nothing about barrel break-in so I started using it straight away after about 200 rounds in the groupings were still all over the place so I looked online for a answer. I read about "breaking in a barrel" on one of the sniper forums on the net and gave it a go as what harm could it do, the one I did is recommended by precision shooting magazine and it did the trick. :thumbs: I'm now getting 3/4 inch groupings at 100 yard.

I would recommend no matter what cal. your rifle is do a break-in procedure that suits you.

Below is the one I did

Barrel Break-In Procedure
Although there may be different schools of thought on barrel break-in, this is what Precision Shooting Magazine recommends:

STEP 1 (repeated 10 times)

Fire one round
Push wet patches soaked with a powder solvent through the bore
Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
Push wet patches soaked with a copper solvent through the bore
Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
Push a patch with 2 drops of oil through the bore
STEP 2 (repeated 5 times)

Fire a 3 shot group
Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1 after each group
STEP 3 (repeat 5 times)

Fire a 5 shot group
Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1

They recommend the use of a patch with 2 drops of oil after the cleaning so that you are not shooting with a dry bore. It is also advisable to use a powder solvent and copper solvent from the same manufacturer to be sure they are chemically compatible.

#6 mole trapper

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 08:44 pm

All of my centrefires bar one have been put through the forest bore foam regime, they all shoot better than i ever will, however my 22-250 which did not get any barrel conditioning of any description just got shot any old how is nothing like as accurate/ consistent, still killed a lot of foxes at some respectable distances to almost point blank. @ 100 YDS on paper it will only do around one and a half inch. Any new rifles in the future will always be treated in the correct manner.

#7 Mr_Logic

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 10:08 pm

I don't buy the barrel breaking in procedure posted earlier. i do think care needs to be taken, but that is seriously, seriously onerous. To use the car analogy, just take good care of it, that's what I do with my car! My process is very simple - new rifle gets zeroed and thoroughly cleaned with copper solvent after that. And each time it gets fired (even if just one round) it gets thoroughly cleaned as well.

When it's had a few, if I fire the odd round it's only a boresnake, but the process doesn't seem to do any harm - my Sako still shoots a half inch or thereabouts at 100 yards, same as it did when I had just got it.

Edited by Mr_Logic, 03 March 2008 - 10:09 pm.


#8 SportingShooter

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 10:21 pm

just wandering
i am about to buy a .222 CZ 527 which has fired 12 rounds from new. but the guy i am buying it from is not the sort to go through the processes above, is this likely to have done any lasting damage?
thanks
ss06

#9 young1982

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 11:03 pm

just wandering
i am about to buy a .222 CZ 527 which has fired 12 rounds from new. but the guy i am buying it from is not the sort to go through the processes above, is this likely to have done any lasting damage?
thanks
ss06


Don't think so, one bloke on a forum I was on did a barrel break-in procedure everytime he got a second gun.

By the way everyone the barrel break-In procedure I have posted, I think is for rimfire rifles.

#10 Guest_baldie_*

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 11:27 am

The method i,ve always used is this. A brand new gun will have been proof fired. clean it thorougly, that means first a good powder solvent, like kg1 carbon remover, hoppes 009 etc, if you dont remove the powder fouling, you wont get at the copper.
Right, fire the gun, then clean for powder first, with a brush and solvent, brush until you can feel the bore is clean, its only a few strokes, but you MUST use a bore guide.Then a couple of dry patches to remove the crap.Then a scrub with a phosphor bronze brush, and a good copper remover, such as butches bore shine, or montana extreme.Then run a couple of soaked patches [same solvent] and let it sit for 15 minutes. After that , patch out until dry . DO NOT PUT OIL IN THE BORE ,THEN SHOOT IT. this is highly dangerous in rifles, and shotguns, as it raises the chamber pressures considerably. People oil their bore for storage only, and the oil must be removed with solvent before firing....if you like your fingers where they are, that is. :D
Thats shot one. repeat this procedure 5 times, shoot , clean, shoot, clean , etc etc. This will usually be enough for a custom grade barrel such as a border, lilja etc, as the will have already been lead lapped by hand. A rifle like a sako, which are best factory quality will need a little more. So fire the first five, then clean, then switch to firing 3 rounds and then clean, do this 5 times. Then switch to firing 5 rounds then clean.Once you,ve got to around 50 rounds, you will see the group sizes shrink dramatically, it may be less, than 50, it may be more. Sako,s tikka,s are usually less, remmy,s are usually around 50 rounds, but a stainless barrel will run in a bit quicker than a chrome moly one.
.17 hmr,s should be subject to the same cleaning regimes as a centrefire, as they are firing a jacketed bullet, at very high speed, and they copper up badly.
There have always been two schools of thought on this subject, and as Mr logic says...its onerous.Yes it is, it will take at least half a day to do properly, but suffice to say, i,ve seen enough fullbores from both camps, and the difference in group sizes, to know that a barrel needs running in, to get the very best out of it.
Its entirely up to the owner, but i,m anal about accuracy, and want the very , very best a barrel can do.

#11 arcpest

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 12:06 pm

The method i,ve always used is this. A brand new gun will have been proof fired. clean it thorougly, that means first a good powder solvent, like kg1 carbon remover, hoppes 009 etc, if you dont remove the powder fouling, you wont get at the copper.
Right, fire the gun, then clean for powder first, with a brush and solvent, brush until you can feel the bore is clean, its only a few strokes, but you MUST use a bore guide.Then a couple of dry patches to remove the crap.Then a scrub with a phosphor bronze brush, and a good copper remover, such as butches bore shine, or montana extreme.Then run a couple of soaked patches [same solvent] and let it sit for 15 minutes. After that , patch out until dry . DO NOT PUT OIL IN THE BORE ,THEN SHOOT IT. this is highly dangerous in rifles, and shotguns, as it raises the chamber pressures considerably. People oil their bore for storage only, and the oil must be removed with solvent before firing....if you like your fingers where they are, that is. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Thats shot one. repeat this procedure 5 times, shoot , clean, shoot, clean , etc etc. This will usually be enough for a custom grade barrel such as a border, lilja etc, as the will have already been lead lapped by hand. A rifle like a sako, which are best factory quality will need a little more. So fire the first five, then clean, then switch to firing 3 rounds and then clean, do this 5 times. Then switch to firing 5 rounds then clean.Once you,ve got to around 50 rounds, you will see the group sizes shrink dramatically, it may be less, than 50, it may be more. Sako,s tikka,s are usually less, remmy,s are usually around 50 rounds, but a stainless barrel will run in a bit quicker than a chrome moly one.
.17 hmr,s should be subject to the same cleaning regimes as a centrefire, as they are firing a jacketed bullet, at very high speed, and they copper up badly.
There have always been two schools of thought on this subject, and as Mr logic says...its onerous.Yes it is, it will take at least half a day to do properly, but suffice to say, i,ve seen enough fullbores from both camps, and the difference in group sizes, to know that a barrel needs running in, to get the very best out of it.
Its entirely up to the owner, but i,m anal about accuracy, and want the very , very best a barrel can do.




Thanks baldie i will definately be running my Tikka in

arcpest

#12 young1982

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 12:55 pm

The method i,ve always used is this. A brand new gun will have been proof fired. clean it thorougly, that means first a good powder solvent, like kg1 carbon remover, hoppes 009 etc, if you dont remove the powder fouling, you wont get at the copper.
Right, fire the gun, then clean for powder first, with a brush and solvent, brush until you can feel the bore is clean, its only a few strokes, but you MUST use a bore guide.Then a couple of dry patches to remove the crap.Then a scrub with a phosphor bronze brush, and a good copper remover, such as butches bore shine, or montana extreme.Then run a couple of soaked patches [same solvent] and let it sit for 15 minutes. After that , patch out until dry . DO NOT PUT OIL IN THE BORE ,THEN SHOOT IT. this is highly dangerous in rifles, and shotguns, as it raises the chamber pressures considerably. People oil their bore for storage only, and the oil must be removed with solvent before firing....if you like your fingers where they are, that is. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Thats shot one. repeat this procedure 5 times, shoot , clean, shoot, clean , etc etc. This will usually be enough for a custom grade barrel such as a border, lilja etc, as the will have already been lead lapped by hand. A rifle like a sako, which are best factory quality will need a little more. So fire the first five, then clean, then switch to firing 3 rounds and then clean, do this 5 times. Then switch to firing 5 rounds then clean.Once you,ve got to around 50 rounds, you will see the group sizes shrink dramatically, it may be less, than 50, it may be more. Sako,s tikka,s are usually less, remmy,s are usually around 50 rounds, but a stainless barrel will run in a bit quicker than a chrome moly one.
.17 hmr,s should be subject to the same cleaning regimes as a centrefire, as they are firing a jacketed bullet, at very high speed, and they copper up badly.
There have always been two schools of thought on this subject, and as Mr logic says...its onerous.Yes it is, it will take at least half a day to do properly, but suffice to say, i,ve seen enough fullbores from both camps, and the difference in group sizes, to know that a barrel needs running in, to get the very best out of it.
Its entirely up to the owner, but i,m anal about accuracy, and want the very , very best a barrel can do.


Baldie
You don't think leaving oil inside the barrel before firing is a good idea then? :no:
What the fudge are Savage arms and Precision Shooting Magazine playing at then, they could get someone killed :icon_eek: I won't be doing that in the future I want all my fingers
Thanks mush :thumbs:

#13 jamie g

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 01:07 pm

The method i,ve always used is this. A brand new gun will have been proof fired. clean it thorougly, that means first a good powder solvent, like kg1 carbon remover, hoppes 009 etc, if you dont remove the powder fouling, you wont get at the copper.
Right, fire the gun, then clean for powder first, with a brush and solvent, brush until you can feel the bore is clean, its only a few strokes, but you MUST use a bore guide.Then a couple of dry patches to remove the crap.Then a scrub with a phosphor bronze brush, and a good copper remover, such as butches bore shine, or montana extreme.Then run a couple of soaked patches [same solvent] and let it sit for 15 minutes. After that , patch out until dry . DO NOT PUT OIL IN THE BORE ,THEN SHOOT IT. this is highly dangerous in rifles, and shotguns, as it raises the chamber pressures considerably. People oil their bore for storage only, and the oil must be removed with solvent before firing....if you like your fingers where they are, that is. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Thats shot one. repeat this procedure 5 times, shoot , clean, shoot, clean , etc etc. This will usually be enough for a custom grade barrel such as a border, lilja etc, as the will have already been lead lapped by hand. A rifle like a sako, which are best factory quality will need a little more. So fire the first five, then clean, then switch to firing 3 rounds and then clean, do this 5 times. Then switch to firing 5 rounds then clean.Once you,ve got to around 50 rounds, you will see the group sizes shrink dramatically, it may be less, than 50, it may be more. Sako,s tikka,s are usually less, remmy,s are usually around 50 rounds, but a stainless barrel will run in a bit quicker than a chrome moly one.
.17 hmr,s should be subject to the same cleaning regimes as a centrefire, as they are firing a jacketed bullet, at very high speed, and they copper up badly.
There have always been two schools of thought on this subject, and as Mr logic says...its onerous.Yes it is, it will take at least half a day to do properly, but suffice to say, i,ve seen enough fullbores from both camps, and the difference in group sizes, to know that a barrel needs running in, to get the very best out of it.
Its entirely up to the owner, but i,m anal about accuracy, and want the very , very best a barrel can do.


Baldie
You don't think leaving oil inside the barrel before firing is a good idea then? http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
What the fudge are Savage arms and Precision Shooting Magazine playing at then, they could get someone killed http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... I won't be doing that in the future I want all my fingers
Thanks mush http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

someone told me they leave abit of tape over there barrel. so when they take it out to go shooting next time they no to
patch out the oil 1st :yes: ;)

#14 Guest_baldie_*

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 02:31 pm

Shotgun barrels blow up regularly when left oiled buddy. Rifles aren,t as bad, but it is still dangerous, as it does raise pressures in the chamber. I doubt the merest smear of oil, caused by your "two drops" would blow up your gun, but why risk it? plus the fact, that an oiled bore will throw the first couple of shots off target anyway.
Lots of people oil their bores after cleaning, but put a patch soaked in meths down prior to shooting it again, to remove the oil. My guns dont stay unfired long enough for me to worry about leaving my bores dry in the cabinet. My house is dry, my cabinets are dry, and i have several vapour phase inhibitor patches hung in the cabinets just in case.

#15 paulhed

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 04:27 pm

Hi baldie

What selection of solvents/cleaners do you use or recomend and where can you buy them from

Cheers paulhed

Edited by paulhed, 04 March 2008 - 04:28 pm.



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