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.223 Or .243


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#16 Alsone

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:00 am

I would say it depends on what deer you might shoot in the future and whether or not you want two rifles.

 

There are 2 schools of thought here:

 

1. Get a .243 and have a good all round rifle, albeit one that's a little on the lighter side for the larger deer but great if you're only ever going to shoot fox and small deer

 

2. Get a .223 for fox and then you have good reason to apply for a heavier calibre for deer later eg. .30-06 or whatever takes your fancy.

 

My mate chose the latter route simply because .223 opened up the possibility of a heavier calibre whereas with .243 being deer legal on all species, there's a bit more to justify when applying for a heavier calibre if you already have a deer legal rifle such as a .243. It shouldn't be hard if you can justify the need for a heavier calibre, but you will need to justify the need as to why you need a heavier calibre than the deer legal one you already have, which may depend on the terrain of your permission and the typical shooting distances involved, whereas with .223, you just mention that you need to shoot deer that aren't legal on .223 with no further justification required. With the latter, provided the land is safe for that calibre, you're away!

 

That said, there's little point paying out for eg. a .30-06 if you're going to target small species at close range as it will just cost a lot more in ammo and cause safety issues with shots passing through.

 

Not sure that helps necessarily in making a decision, but it does give a few factors to consider.


Edited by Alsone, 09 July 2014 - 08:15 am.


#17 charlie caller

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:24 am

Get the .243 mate as Danw says you wont be dissapointed,the .22-250 is a superb round too, but then of course you are restricted to the small deer as well, Alsone, a .243 will pass through deer mate, in fact it is most desirable to have the bullet pass through, in case of  a runner, so you have a blood trail to follow, it matters not one jot,what calibre you use, if you dont have a safe backstop behind the deer, you dont shoot! .243 will cause more meat damage than a .30-06 especially at close (100-150 yards) but if you shoot for the boiler room, who cares?


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#18 celticrusader

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:31 am

Justifying your reason for centre fire is what your doing by using the .243 and this is what's needed when moving up from rimfire in the feo's eyes as when (at a later date) you do decide to alternate calibres you have already held one with a legitimate reason and proved safe and competent.
What deer you got on your land or are you doing payed stalks now and then is the main question as you could also do as said above and use a .223 night vision setup and then .243 by day.

Edited by celticrusader, 09 July 2014 - 08:32 am.


#19 49eric

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:48 am

got my 243 first for fox and deer but just put in for a 223 for fox too (night time use as the 243 is just too much power even with a 55g when you cant see far enough behind the target)

FLO came out on monday and agreed so just waiting for the paperwork to come back

yes  spot on  well  done ,  you  how have  gained  the  respect . of  your  FLO  Makes  things   a lot  easer   in the long  run   



#20 danw

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:05 am

got my 243 first for fox and deer but just put in for a 223 for fox too (night time use as the 243 is just too much power even with a 55g when you cant see far enough behind the target)

FLO came out on monday and agreed so just waiting for the paperwork to come back

Mate I cannot agree with your statement I use my 25 06 lamping even used to take my 300 rum out they are just fine because I make damned sure I know what I'm shooting at. If you can't see behind that target you shouldn't be pulling the trigger no matter the calibre  


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#21 danw

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:07 am

I would like to see Alsone tell some of the Scottish stalkers I know that the .243 isn't enough gun he would be laughed back to the southern counties :laugh:


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#22 hutchey

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:21 am

 

got my 243 first for fox and deer but just put in for a 223 for fox too (night time use as the 243 is just too much power even with a 55g when you cant see far enough behind the target)

FLO came out on monday and agreed so just waiting for the paperwork to come back

Mate I cannot agree with your statement I use my 25 06 lamping even used to take my 300 rum out they are just fine because I make damned sure I know what I'm shooting at. If you can't see behind that target you shouldn't be pulling the trigger no matter the calibre  

 

I agree Dan and obviously wouldn't shoot without knowing what my backstop was etc.

 

I was thinking from a point of view where maybe there isn't field after field or hectares of space behind the target, where perhaps even the use of a 50 cal would be fine :)

 

(This is a sweeping statement but just for simplicity) More power equals more chance of bullet going further out other side of target.  So less power = less far and easier to work out back stop distances.  (THEORETICALLY - before i get bashed from post to post)

 

Main reason is for dedicated NV rifle for charlie etc, its quieter than 243, doesn't tie up my 243 for NV or having to keep switching to Day Scope constantly, etc.


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#23 walshy0988

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:41 am

I started with a 223 for fox and 243 for deer but had fox on it aswell in the end I never used the 223 so it went .get a 243 you can shoot lighter loads if you do more foxing an up the load if you go stalking, I personally use 100 grin soft points for everything atb walshy

#24 walshy0988

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:43 am

It's not about how much power it's about shot placement IMO walshy

#25 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:23 am

I have a 223 and use soft point, 243 with soft points , and my 308 with soft point ammo, and i have shot everything from rabbits Red Deer and even a good few wild Boar with the 243 so it is an all round rifle for all British Quarry so Alsone i guess you ought to get out and try one lol, and i have ALQ on all my rifles so i am covered for all Quarry which ever Rifle i am using at the time.


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#26 Alsone

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:38 am

Get the .243 mate as Danw says you wont be dissapointed,the .22-250 is a superb round too, but then of course you are restricted to the small deer as well, Alsone, a .243 will pass through deer mate, in fact it is most desirable to have the bullet pass through, in case of  a runner, so you have a blood trail to follow, it matters not one jot,what calibre you use, if you dont have a safe backstop behind the deer, you dont shoot! .243 will cause more meat damage than a .30-06 especially at close (100-150 yards) but if you shoot for the boiler room, who cares?

 

Yeah I'm quite well aware any calibre has the possibility of passing through and I fully endorse your statement that if you don't have a safe backstop you don't shoot period.

 

As for relative meat damage, I can't comment as I don't shoot deer. I only know what decision my mate took as to .243 vs .30-06 and why. I'm presuming with .243 it's down to Hornady tips whereas with larger calibres they often  FJSP or SJSP.

 

 

I would like to see Alsone tell some of the Scottish stalkers I know that the .243 isn't enough gun he would be laughed back to the southern counties :laugh:

 

Yep Dan, I'm quite well aware that .243 is capable of killing any deer. However, there is a fair bit of opinion to say that for the very largest species, you're better off with a larger calibre as some regard .243 as marginal against eg Reds.



#27 danw

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:53 am

 

Get the .243 mate as Danw says you wont be dissapointed,the .22-250 is a superb round too, but then of course you are restricted to the small deer as well, Alsone, a .243 will pass through deer mate, in fact it is most desirable to have the bullet pass through, in case of  a runner, so you have a blood trail to follow, it matters not one jot,what calibre you use, if you dont have a safe backstop behind the deer, you dont shoot! .243 will cause more meat damage than a .30-06 especially at close (100-150 yards) but if you shoot for the boiler room, who cares?

 

Yeah I'm quite well aware any calibre has the possibility of passing through and I fully endorse your statement that if you don't have a safe backstop you don't shoot period.

 

As for relative meat damage, I can't comment as I don't shoot deer. I only know what decision my mate took as to .243 vs .30-06 and why. I'm presuming with .243 it's down to Hornady tips whereas with larger calibres they often  FJSP or SJSP.

 

 

I would like to see Alsone tell some of the Scottish stalkers I know that the .243 isn't enough gun he would be laughed back to the southern counties :laugh:

 

Yep Dan, I'm quite well aware that .243 is capable of killing any deer. However, there is a fair bit of opinion to say that for the very largest species, you're better off with a larger calibre as some regard .243 as marginal against eg Reds.

 

Yep and my opinion having shot Hill,lowland and park red and sika which are reported to be one of the hardest deer to kill and the opinion of the professionals I know that do it day on day say that .243 is plenty, personally I chose a .25 not for any other reason than I like the calibre but it wont do anything a .243 can't



#28 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:54 am

 

Get the .243 mate as Danw says you wont be dissapointed,the .22-250 is a superb round too, but then of course you are restricted to the small deer as well, Alsone, a .243 will pass through deer mate, in fact it is most desirable to have the bullet pass through, in case of  a runner, so you have a blood trail to follow, it matters not one jot,what calibre you use, if you dont have a safe backstop behind the deer, you dont shoot! .243 will cause more meat damage than a .30-06 especially at close (100-150 yards) but if you shoot for the boiler room, who cares?

 

Yeah I'm quite well aware any calibre has the possibility of passing through and I fully endorse your statement that if you don't have a safe backstop you don't shoot period.

 

As for relative meat damage, I can't comment as I don't shoot deer. I only know what decision my mate took as to .243 vs .30-06 and why. I'm presuming with .243 it's down to Hornady tips whereas with larger calibres they often  FJSP or SJSP.

 

 

I would like to see Alsone tell some of the Scottish stalkers I know that the .243 isn't enough gun he would be laughed back to the southern counties :laugh:

 

Yep Dan, I'm quite well aware that .243 is capable of killing any deer. However, there is a fair bit of opinion to say that for the very largest species, you're better off with a larger calibre as some regard .243 as marginal against eg Reds.

 

If you don't shoot Deer i don't see how you can advise others on what cal Rifle to use. :hmm:


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#29 shropshire dan

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:16 pm

Cheers lads will see what he says

#30 charlie caller

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 01:35 pm

Back in the day .220 swift was advocated as a brilliant red deer round on the hill, I can remember reading books/articles that raved about it, I have a pal that used to do all the local council deer culling, before calibre restrictions were in place, he used a .22-250 on the biggest red stags, and says it was brilliant with almost every one dropping on the spot, I remember speaking to an old retired stalker in the 90s he said they did all their hind culling with a .22 hornet ;) a .243 is plenty for any deer in this country if you can shoot :thumbs:


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