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zx10mike, September 16, 2011 in Reloading and Gun Maintenance
I notice a few issues which i don't think you have mentioned....
After problems started, did you try a new batch of brass...?
Is the gun a factory standard chamber, or a new custom barrel maybe... with tighter spec throat....?
is the brass has been fired alot in another rifle you may start to notice the bolt etc, difficult to close, as the brass is flowing to fill the difference in throat dimentions..
this will require a shoulder bump die...
Have you checked concentricity of the brass itself...? As this would cause major flyers....
concentricity of the bullet head itself before loading...?
Are the primer pockets enlarged...? does the primer seating feel like you need a differing pressure to seat them in various rounds...?
have you done a good copper cleaning regime of the barrel, as well as carbon build up...? as both build up in layers...
Are you keeping firing protocal adopting the same position, eye relief, etc... clear sight picture...?
hope this narrows the trouble shooting down a bit, sorry no pun intended....lol
hi snap i'm waiting on new brass at the mo all standard chamber ect anal about cleaning one thing i have just noticed and hope you guys with fireballs will tell me is normal.
when i first shot the rifle the primers had puddling , i phoned the armoury at edgar brothers and they sent me an e mail saying this was normal from remington but the primers bulge when fired and the bullet rocks when stood up.the fired length is a wopping 1.4060 to 1.4100 . when the trim length is 1.4000 this is quite an enlargement and could cause problems if the brass is now longer than when i first got it.basicly the primers are making the bullet longer which would cause the damage i am seeing
a bit more info.i went out this morning whilst there was no wind.i have full length sized my brass and tried rem primers i shot 3 trimmed to 1.4000 2 were damaged 1 fine then i shot 3 at 1.3980 and 1 was damaged more than any other and 2 were fine.as far as the primers pretruding once fired my .204 is the same and that shoots great.going to add some pics of the damage in a mo as a pic tells a thousand words apparently
Just a thought,,,,,, check your rims are true and not been nicked by the extractor, if the chamber is tight and the brass soft ( rims usualy are ) pulling them out could have put a slight high spot so making the case longer, even when measured if you dont get the caliper dead on the extractor contack spot it wouldnt show up but would tighten the bolt
this is the puddling on the primers, when i measure the fired brass these puddles are what cause the brass to be so long.
It might help the guys on here with fireballs or knowledge of them for you to give them what powder and weight, bullet make and weight and distance from the lands you are shooting at. Also, the primers you are/have tried. From the photos of the primers/neck rims, my inclination is that there is a headspace issue which could be to do with a low powder charge. Have you chronographed the rounds you are making?
not chronographed as yet normally use cci but have tried remington primers both with same result.using h322 17.2 grn 25 grn v max,the primers are normal according to remington but my first thought was to trim to comphensate but dare not trim any more as the problem could be the outher way perhaps my chamber is long and the flyers were short brass and as i trim to length i make things worse.
As stated before, the .17 FB is not my forte, so found the following which may be of interest which (just) may prove what I said above about low powder charge especially as I now know you are using H322. If you were to go up the powde scale to say 17.8 gr - which is still safe and forget about accuracy for the moment but just see what effect this amount of powder has on your cases appearance after firing. FL them first though.
My primers all come out the same as yours ! i have used remington 7.5 and federal.
.6 is a BIG jump in fireball powder ! .3 is the max recomended increase in one jump, i use 16 gr of h4198 but have been to 16.9 gr but got all the signs of pressure flat primers and lenghtend case's.
When someone did a quick load on 16.9gr it came back as a dangerous over pressure load so look at all avenues and don't take the reloading data as gospel.
Assuming you've checked the scope, rings, mounts, and rifle/action bolts etc and all is well then it could be one of several things. I shoot a 17 Mach IV and make all my own brass from .223 ( I need to get a life) so I know a little about getting these things to shoot.
Chamber length you can measure VERY accurately with a gauge that fits in the chamber neck ( get a mate with a lathe to machine one up). Its a "T" shaped button that butts upto the end of the chamber and slides into the case when the bolt is closed.
Trim a case neck down be 3mm too short and chamber the round.If it chambers and is still a little stiff at the bottom of the bolt stroke then its likely that the shoulder needs a bump back by a thou' or two. Having said that a little stiffness is OK as this helps set up head space. With the gauge you can determine the overall length of the chamber. Trim cases back between 5 and 10 thou from OAL.
Make sure the barrel is clean. These things will foul out quickly. I couldnt keep 3 shots inside a 12" circle at one point due to copper build up!Use a good carbon and copper remover. Get yourself a Pro Shot rod and a decent brush. They recon cleaning about every 20s round or so. Have you tried waxing? I tried WS2 coating the bullets but had little success and moved to waxing ( not my bikini line!). This put 3 pills virtually thru the same hole at 100 yds and increase the number of shots between cleaning cycles. Im in Notts if you still having probs then shout up! Also check out Saubier.com-- its a small calibers haven!
thanks for your thoughts,my main concern is the damage to the end of the brass.with regard the action bolts the touque is about 8 inch lbs so to be honest i am just nipping them up tight as finding a tourque wrench from 5 inch lbs is hard and i considered this the least of my worries at the moment but your thoughts on how much accurate tourque settings need to be would be interesting.
head space i have never got into as i thought it was only inportant if you were trying to seat your bullets further out to cut the bullet jump down.i'm probably wrong.i thought that trim length was a standard length all rifles were desighned by.i'm wondering if my bullets are bouncing when fired so they need to be longer but that would mean when i buy new brass the shorter ones will produce flyers.i would not like to trim more off than i have to rule out the brass bieng to long.when ytou say trim back 5 - 10 thou back from the overall length waht if this is out of sami spec?i thought that was a no no.
waxing is interesting but i need to get back to basics i had it shooting on a five pence and for the good of my mental health i need to find out what went tits up.
i will not hunt unless it is spot on and the f*****g rabbits were sat there watching me shoot this morning .b******s sorry about that little outburst.
thanks to you and all the other guys who have helped i'm going on you tube to learn more about oal
i'm going on you tube to learn more about oal
i'm going on you tube to learn more about oal
If going on U Tube a good idea would be to follow the teachings of Ammosmith - his vids are excellent
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