Tiff 36 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Does the nutrition of fats change when it's cooked? I ask because when it's cold I like to warm the veg/fats that the dogs eat, but are not sure if rendering/cooking the fat changes the nutrition? Same with the veg, I've been steaming cabbage / celery / tomatoes etc a bit before feeding, using the hot water in their rations as well. advice please? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tiff 36 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 anyone anyone anyone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 any type of cooking process will break down the properties of the food in question ... veg will lose its vitamins especially vit e as that is destroyed in even moderate heat ... by cooking the fats you will be breaking down its effectivness in suplying the energy source that its desinged to do .... i feed everything raw but in real cold weather such as know i mix up a gravy and pour it over the food whehn it has cooled down so that it is only warm to the touch ........... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kye 77 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks Socks,...just the guy i was hoping would reply!..lol. The meat there on is fairly lean (venison) so we are adding fresh cuts of beef fat/trimmings that we get free, and veg, and they are doing well on it!...thanks for the info mate. Jay,.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tiff 36 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Kye was telling me not to cook it for the above reasons Socks, and not that I didn't believe him, but it's just like when your mom would make you put on a jumper because SHE was cold? I'm the same way with feeding the dogs cold food! what do you make the gravy with? Would something like bread soaked down in lambsmilk replacer do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 tiff i make a up a weak gravy using ordniary gravy granuels ... i do it mainly in the freezing weather for a few reasons firstly the dogs can digets a warm meal better than a cold one and this saves them using up the energy to keep warm on trying to digest food .... secondly i break the ice on their water bowls 3 times a day but at the moment its freezing over quick so by adding a pint of watery gravy to their meal i can be sure they are getting the fluids they need ........... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 tiff i make a up a weak gravy using ordniary gravy granuels ... i do it mainly in the freezing weather for a few reasons firstly the dogs can digets a warm meal better than a cold one and this saves them using up the energy to keep warm on trying to digest food .... secondly i break the ice on their water bowls 3 times a day but at the moment its freezing over quick so by adding a pint of watery gravy to their meal i can be sure they are getting the fluids they need ........... Fluids can be a problem at this time of year, especially if feeding dry food, and unlike the warmer months one that isn't always recognised. Adding gravey to meals will help but be carefull as some are hich in salt which will undo your good work. To the origanol post cooking fats can change then, in certain instances altering good fats into bad ones, but in general the calories will remain pretty much the same. it's not a bad idea to increase fats in cold periods as they are the fuel the dogs body uses to keep warm and give around twice the calories pound for pound as carbs or protein. Bear in mind the average bit of beef gives around 60% calories from fat to 40% protein even if it looks lean so adding a little meat to a complete diet will increase total fat content. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mac 30 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I was gonna add that, gravy can contain alot of salt, but like many companies they persist in calling it 'sodium' in the list of ingredients to somewhat hide the fact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 as i said i make up a WEAK gravy ... there are plenty of low salt options available .......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chaz 6 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) An excerpt from a Seminar by Greyhound vet John Kohnke "Roasting or Grilling of fatty meat destroys some of the important amino acids, such as methionine, as well as Vitamin A Vitamin E and Folic Acid. These essential nutrients help to break down the fat in the bowels so when they are destroyed, extra fat is absorbed from the gut and may accumulate in the liver. Burnt (oxidised) fat forms harmful peroxide chemicals that can interfere with muscle and liver function, causing slow growth in puppies and poor performance in working dogs" He is talking about cooking at temps over 200 Centigrade Edited January 7, 2009 by Chaz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 An excerpt from a Seminar by Greyhound vet John Kohnke "Roasting or Grilling of fatty meat destroys some of the important amino acids, such as methionine, as well as Vitamin A Vitamin E and Folic Acid. These essential nutrients help to break down the fat in the bowels so when they are destroyed, extra fat is absorbed from the gut and may accumulate in the liver. Burnt (oxidised) fat forms harmful peroxide chemicals that can interfere with muscle and liver function, causing slow growth in puppies and poor performance in working dogs" He is talking about cooking at temps over 200 Centigrade I agree any burnt food is in theory harmful, perhaps to the extent of being carcinogenic, but normal cooking leaves more than enough micro-nutrients and can allow access to otherwise unavailable ones. Greater uptake of the fat means that the animal is wasting less ( though I suspect thats not what he means). I've found very little in the way of investigations into the effects of different fats in canine digestion. Fats are stored in the liver and various sites around the body only if the animal is over fed ie obese is this a problem. I'd be inerested in reading the article and a PM of such would be greatly appreciated. Cheers s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kye 77 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the very informative replys guys!,...good reading! Tiffs getting outta the terriers, and she has gone 'Big-Dog-Crazy'...if it 'aint got Saluki in it, she dont want it!...lol. Just so you guys know,...we dont get Bisto, or PROPER gravy over here,...maybe i can get hold of it somewhere, but im not sure where?... Socks, when we do the veg, some of our dogs like it, and others pick at it, and some refuse altogther to eat it (cheeky feckers, poor Tiff spends about 1.30hrs a day just preping dog grub!..lol.) Yesterday, they had venison for breakfast in the morning (meat still on the bone) then, in the evening about 40minutes after there excersize they got carrotts and cabbage, put through the blender with a little milk replacer (i guess that would be fine instead of the gravy Socks?) and chunks of diced beef trimmings/fats in it...they sure gulp that shit down!...yum, yum!... The big dogs are in great nick at the moment, and are getting worked fairly hard, and this diet seems to be doing fine... Thanks again for the info guys... Kye,.. PS...Socks, what would you recomend as recovery feed after a hard nights lamping?...its mostly a fast and furious dash of 15-300 yards, then a fair old struggle/fight at the end, until we get there....some nights not that many runs, and the dogs seem fine the next day, but sometimes, like the other night, they had a killer night (1 shed leopard, 5 big raccoons, and a coyote) and they was fairly tired the day after!...lol....just want them to recover as quick as possible!...of course we do NOT work our dogs when they are sore/puffy. Edited January 7, 2009 by Kye Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thanks for the very informative replys guys!,...good reading! Tiffs getting outta the terriers, and she has gone 'Big-Dog-Crazy'...if it 'aint got Saluki in it, she dont want it!...lol. Just so you guys know,...we dont get Bisto, or PROPER gravy over here,...maybe i can get hold of it somewhere, but im not sure where?... Socks, when we do the veg, some of our dogs like it, and others pick at it, and some refuse altogther to eat it (cheeky feckers, poor Tiff spends about 1.30hrs a day just preping dog grub!..lol.) Yesterday, they had venison for breakfast in the morning (meat still on the bone) then, in the evening about 40minutes after there excersize they got carrotts and cabbage, put through the blender with a little milk replacer (i guess that would be fine instead of the gravy Socks?) and chunks of diced beef trimmings/fats in it...they sure gulp that shit down!...yum, yum!... The big dogs are in great nick at the moment, and are getting worked fairly hard, and this diet seems to be doing fine... Thanks again for the info guys... Kye,.. PS...Socks, what would you recomend as recovery feed after a hard nights lamping?...its mostly a fast and furious dash of 15-300 yards, then a fair old struggle/fight at the end, until we get there....some nights not that many runs, and the dogs seem fine the next day, but sometimes, like the other night, they had a killer night (1 shed leopard, 5 big raccoons, and a coyote) and they was fairly tired the day after!...lol....just want them to recover as quick as possible!...of course we do NOT work our dogs when they are sore/puffy. some will take to veg and some wont mate but most will take to veg given at different states ie some like it minced some like it whole and some will only eat veg that is minced in with the meat you will have to find out how each one likes it mate ...... be carefull with carrots mate as they are fairly high in sugar ....... as for the recovery feed the type of work your dogs are doing will be causing muscle depletion rather than sustained cardio so to that end i would feed a good high protein meat to replenish the broken down creatine and protein and the amount of food will depend on the amount of work done that particular night a handfull of boiled plain rice will be enough to help with the amount of carbs used ...... also dont forget that fluids are essential to regeniration and will help with the digestion of the food so if the dogs are not prone to filling up after a night again try to make the meal into a soup consistency .......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kye 77 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thanks alot mate,...they dont get carrotts alot, thats just what they happened to have last night,...most times they have veg, its normally broccoli, cabbage, spinnach etc...mostly leafy green veg etc,... Thanks for the info!...off out again tonight, we will see how they do.. Thanks again mate, all the best.. Jay.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tiff 36 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 It takes me a long time right now as I am still playing with different vegs, and how to cut/shred them ... last night I used a hand grater to mince a head of cabage (harder than it sounds!) and 4 carrots, I don't have any electrical way to do it. Added to that lambsmilk replacer mixed into a couple pints of water, and a quart of uncooked chunks beef fat straight from the butchers. That split between the 4 dogs went something like this ... They all ate the chunks of fat, Blister (70 lbs) ate all the liquid and most of the veg, Tor (75 lbs) just sucked the fluid out only, leaving about a pint of veg, Slag (60 lbs) and Tia (40 lbs) both downed it ALL without anything left at the bottom. I think I'll cut back everyone 25% as it seemed like a LOT to digest in one meal, and maybe increase the liquid a bit. But what to do with Tor, the one who wouldn't eat the veg? Should I try differents vegs with her, maybe she doesn't LIKE cabbage and carrots? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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