Payment??

[The Sporting Agent 0]

There has been a lot of debate about this topic recently, directly and indirectly.

 

I was interested to see statistically if you like, what peoples feelings are on the subject. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts as well as seeing how the poll develops. Especially, those who beat a lot and earn (comparativly) a lot of money from it.

 

Does anyone here declare the earnings they recieve? If they are rewarded financially?

 

What are peoples thought on financial payment as a whole given that many see beating as a hobby to be enjoyed, as is shooting - but guns pay for their sport.

 

Should there be some diference between comercial shoots and "other" (family, syndicate etc)

 

Lots of questions I know, but it seems to be a hot topic whenever its discussed but never seems to be gotten to the bottom of. Additionally, one of the extremist groups is pettitioning the HMRC to look into non payment of taxes by beaters, so maybe a timely opportunity for a discussion?!

[Kay 3,709]

Whats the normal precedure regarding kids & hours etc & pay ?

Stuff like how many hours they can work etc

[victor 10]

money is a extra. like if im payed to take rabbits off land im out there enjoyting it not for the money. and usualy if some one is willing to pay there is shit loads out there.

[COMPO 54]

IMO yes beaters should be paid, fed and watered and if travelling should be paid expenses, without good beaters you aint got a shoot.

 

That about it!

 

 

I used to go beating quiet a bit!

 

It was hard to vote cos i wanted to vote for the top 2.....beaters with skill's and knowledge should be paid more and so should those with well trained dogs whatever the breed!

 

Last shoot i beat on...i think it was about £17 a day or such and a beer at lunch

 

there was a few lads who were un-employed or worked part-time a few who were retired and they beat on all the local shoots at every opportunity and topped their income up considerably during the shooting season!

 

Tax? thats a sore point......it seems a lot of hassle for a few quid......both for the shoot and the beater....does the shoot sort out the tax issue? do the beaters have to decalre themselves self -employed and sort it out?? If Tax payment became mandatory on beaters money there would be a lot more shoots offering game instead as a "GIFT" rather than payment......in fact wouldn't a gift be able to be paid in money....so the gun's give a gift to the keeper....who share's it out amongst the beaters as a "gift" an early birthday gift? or several small christmas gifts? as far as i know if i give a friend a few quid as a gift for a few beers.....he doesn't have to declare it to the tax man!

 

I am hoping to go part time this year at work as my wife is starting a job.........i may be able to return to doing some beating next season

 

The last shoot i beat on also paid the beaters in other ways............ferreting permission for me.........a bit of pigeon shooting for others...........everyone invited to beat on a muntjac/vermin shoot and a muntjac if you wanted it...plus money and the obligatory beer!

[COMPO 54]

money is a extra. like if im payed to take rabbits off land im out there enjoyting it not for the money. and usualy if some one is willing to pay there is sh*t loads out there.

 

 

Victor

 

i think there is a cultural mis-understanding between the UK (europe) and yourself in OZ

 

Beating is where you attend a shoot, and flush pheasants and other game birds towards a line of guns....the guns pay to be there and to shoot and part of the payment works its way to the beaters (there are other types of driven shoots, some where the guns take it in turns to beat towards each other, syndicates and family shoots etc....rather than paid guns)

 

A lot see beating as a sport in itself, it gives lads a chance to work a spaniel or terrier at flushing game.........but usually there is some kind of payment in money and or game that has been shot

[victor 10]

oh ok, f**k doing it for free then. when we do it it is along massive rivers and the old blokes sit down the end and we shoot the ones as we go along. thay get the ones we miss or that get away, at the end of the day. it's how many carts you brign down lol.

[claybusers al 9]

i dont beat anymore but when i did the money never even covered my fuel to get there but i got as much vermin shooting i wanted and a couple of days at the end of the season these where on syndicate shoots so not the large commercial days if it was that way i would want a wage theres a lot of money changing hands then

[Jim Grant 4]

On commercial shoots you will or should always be paid. Extra if you are asked to bring your steady dog. Pickers-up get the full rate, although most wiill not take cash. Usually trialling folk who want the work for their dogs. Happy with a couple of birds.

 

Small syndicates and shoots rely on a couple of paid beaters and a number of friends, relatives just out for the day and happy with somthing to take home.

 

I suppose the dividing line is whether or not the shoot has a paid keeper, either full or part time (but every day). Keepered he will always go for paid beaters.

 

Thats how it works around here anyway.

[The Sporting Agent 0]

Some good replies; many have asked the same question I guess I'd like to see answered.

 

Kay asked about working hours etc? Compo about tax etc?

 

If beating is not a job, but a hobby; do working hours come into it (or even the minimum wage question?) Should we declare this "income"? There is no doubt that beating costs more than it "pays" - fuel, dog food, vets bills, clothing etc etc, so from that point of view it might be beneficial!

 

Animal cruelty is not going to work for the antis; but getting onto the tax bandwagon as Animal Aid are doing will cause genuine trouble.

 

If payment was mandatory, then surely tax would have to be paid? Possably making it more hastle than its worth from the shoots point of view (we already hear of shoots who cant afford beaters).

 

Maybe we need to go back 10-20 years in our attitude. maybe its this modern thougt that beaters have to be paid which causes the problem (I know of beters who turn beating down because they say the money is too poor!).

 

10-20 years ago beating was not as it is today; the act was the same but there was less emphasis on cash and more on getting a brace, a bit of food and the chance of a beaters day; thatr is still the case but seemingly becomming less so.

 

Many now see (and rightly so) beating as a hobby/sport in its own right. Done as a way of working dogs that one has trained etc; if this is the case why should beaters be paid to enjoy their hobby, when guns are paying through the nose to enjoy theirs?

 

Sure beaters (and pickers-up) put in hard work to help with the sucess of a days shooting, so some form of "thank you" is needed; but are they not there for the very same reason as the guns?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and asking questions in the hope to spur an interesting debate, not kick off about beaters earning money.

[COMPO 54]

as i mentioned but then rambled on about

 

I reckon all beaters should get a Gift! whether thats a brace and a few quid or just a few quid i think all shoots that are paid shoots should give a gift....not a wage but a gift! then no tax and as its a non-paid role then working hours dont apply......but the health and safety gestapo have already got into shoots aint they as they state that beaters are employed and workplace rules apply! ....so perhaps we are already employed when beatinga nd tax is in-evitable?

 

 

I used to like beating , i have beat on a paid shoot as well as a family syndicate where it wasn't paid! and a little paid shoot that was the landowners hobby shoot with a paid keeper etc....beaters were paid and fed and watered!

 

its an interesteing debate

[Hob&Jill 258]

I dont get paid for beating and I'm happy with it. They treat us well, all the regular beaters get a free professional clay day and bbq/pub lunch in the Summer where as the guns have to pay £100 odd quid, which covers the beaters tickets too. The beaters days are never the last shoot so were not clearing up the shitteres left over. They always have more than enough beaters too.

 

Plus you dont get treated like your getting paid, if that makes sense. If they have a pop at you you can tell em to feck off, all part of the craic.

 

But I would say on large full keepered estates, where its more of a formal occasion then I would say you should get paid.

 

ATB,

 

HJ

 

Edit> forgot to mention we always get a brace too and usually a pint if you hang around in the pub long enough they always give me the shot up birds for the ferrets too.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Hob&Jill

[Guest hyperion]

id say it depended on the size of the shoot! a big comercial shoot id expect to be paid but id still be doing it because i wanted to, a small shoot id stomp about all day for a pork pie!

cheers

hyperion

[COMPO 54]

Sad i know...i thought about this topic when my pc was switched off....Just got to work!

 

I reckon a way round the tax issue...i have already banged on about "gifts" but the shooting season goes over Christmas..........the keeper could keep a record of which beaters turn up on what days....then at Christmas you get a gift from the shoot proportionate to how many days you have attended....and an extra gift for the dog? especially as most folk are off work over christmas and there are usually shoots on boxing day and between christmas and the new year!

[steviebhoy 0]

Well i do both...large commercial shoots and small syndicate shoots where i pick up or beat.

On the small syndicate shoot it is a friend of mine and i am happy with a brace of birds but on the commercial shoot i would be expected to be paid, vets bills aren't cheap you know.

[Kay 3,709]

Some good replies; many have asked the same question I guess I'd like to see answered.

 

Kay asked about working hours etc? Compo about tax etc?

 

If beating is not a job, but a hobby; do working hours come into it (or even the minimum wage question?) Should we declare this "income"? There is no doubt that beating costs more than it "pays" - fuel, dog food, vets bills, clothing etc etc, so from that point of view it might be beneficial!

 

Animal cruelty is not going to work for the antis; but getting onto the tax bandwagon as Animal Aid are doing will cause genuine trouble.

 

If payment was mandatory, then surely tax would have to be paid? Possably making it more hastle than its worth from the shoots point of view (we already hear of shoots who cant afford beaters).

 

Maybe we need to go back 10-20 years in our attitude. maybe its this modern thougt that beaters have to be paid which causes the problem (I know of beters who turn beating down because they say the money is too poor!).

 

10-20 years ago beating was not as it is today; the act was the same but there was less emphasis on cash and more on getting a brace, a bit of food and the chance of a beaters day; thatr is still the case but seemingly becomming less so.

 

Many now see (and rightly so) beating as a hobby/sport in its own right. Done as a way of working dogs that one has trained etc; if this is the case why should beaters be paid to enjoy their hobby, when guns are paying through the nose to enjoy theirs?

 

Sure beaters (and pickers-up) put in hard work to help with the sucess of a days shooting, so some form of "thank you" is needed; but are they not there for the very same reason as the guns?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here, and asking questions in the hope to spur an interesting debate, not kick off about beaters earning money.

 

I was thinking more of kids getting exploited , i know its experience for them but surely they cant be expected to work 8 hrs for example in all weathers for a couple of quid & a drink of pop