Malt 379 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 How many of you people making comments like, 'They tamper with the bull,' have actually seen a real live bull fight? I get the same old spiel when I tell people that I follow the local hunt, people making assumptions based on what they've heard through through the media and other outlets. I'm not comparing a fox hunt to a bull fight before anyone says that I am......... Link to post Share on other sites
Dawn B 212 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 wrong dawn , if they fight well they are saved . unfortunantly this is what happens when you only hear of things and do not witness then first hand. if the matador screws up two blows he is the one who is ridiculed and believe me is a big thing. Im not wrong, you are talking of the Portuguese way, not the Spanish way in which I thought the topic and sport was based upon. Link to post Share on other sites
Dawn B 212 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 How many of you people making comments like, 'They tamper with the bull,' have actually seen a real live bull fight? I get the same old spiel when I tell people that I follow the local hunt, people making assumptions based on what they've heard through through the media and other outlets. I'm not comparing a fox hunt to a bull fight before anyone says that I am......... I have seen videos from somebody who goes regularly to watch these fights, he loves it, but hates the underhand way in which they DO tamper with the animals. He has also seen other things that dont happen!! Link to post Share on other sites
chimp 299 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 the horns are untouched , i think you maybe thinking of rodeo , it is tradition just like fox hunting was yours rodeo Link to post Share on other sites
jembo 0 Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Just so everyone is clear!!! Portugues Bull Fighting: Cavaleiro and bullMain article: Portuguese-style bullfighting Most Portuguese bullfights are held in two phases: the spectacle of the cavaleiro, and the pega. In the cavaleiro, a horseman on a Portuguese Lusitano horse (specially trained for the fights) fights the bull from horseback. The purpose of this fight is to stab three or four bandeirilhas (small javelins) in the back of the bull. The pega.In the second stage, called the pega ("holding"), the forcados, a group of eight men, challenge the bull directly without any protection or weapon of defense. The front man provokes the bull into a charge to perform a pega de cara or pega de caras (face grab). The front man secures the animal's head and is quickly aided by his fellows who surround and secure the animal until he is subdued. [9] The bull is not killed in the ring and, at the end of the corrida, leading oxen are let into the arena and two campinos on foot herd the bull along them back to its pen. The bull is usually killed, away from the audience's sight, by a professional butcher. It can happen that some bulls, after an exceptional performance, are healed, released to pasture until their end days and used for breeding. Link to post Share on other sites
jembo 0 Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This is Spanish bull fighting: Spanish-style bullfighting is called corrida de toros (literally running of bulls) or fiesta brava (the ferocious festival). In traditional corrida, three toreros, or matadores, each fight two bulls, each of which is at least four years old and weighs 460–600 kg. Each matador has six assistants — two picadores ("lancers") mounted on horseback, three banderilleros ("flagmen"), and a mozo de espada ("sword page"). Collectively they comprise a cuadrilla ("entourage"). The modern corrida is highly ritualized, with three distinct stages or tercios, the start of each being announced by a trumpet sound. The participants first enter the arena in a parade to salute the presiding dignitary, accompanied by band music. Torero costumes are inspired by 18th century Andalusian clothing, and matadores are easily distinguished by their spectacular "suit of lights" (traje de luces). Corrida in Sevilla, SpainNext, the bull enters the ring to be tested for ferocity by the matador and banderilleros with the magenta and gold capote ("dress cape"). In the first stage, the tercio de varas ("the lancing third"), the matador first confronts the bull and observes his behavior in an initial section called suerte de capote. Next, a picador enters the arena on horseback armed with a vara ("lance"). To protect the horse from the bull's horns, the horse is surrounded by a peto — a protective cover. Prior to 1909, the horse did not wear any protection, and the bull could disembowel the horse during this stage. At this point, the picador stabs a mound of muscle on the bull's neck, leading to the animal's first loss of blood. The manner in which the bull charges the horse provides important clues to the matador on which side the bull is favoring. If the picador does his job well, the bull will hold its head and horns lower during the following stages of the fight. This makes it slightly less dangerous while enabling the matador to perform the elegant passes of modern bullfighting. In the next stage, the tercio de banderillas ("the third of flags"), the three banderilleros each attempt to plant two razor sharp barbed sticks (called banderillas) on the bull's flanks, ideally as close as possible to the wound where the picador drew first blood. These further weaken the enormous ridges of neck and shoulder muscle through loss of blood, while also frequently spurring the bull into making more ferocious charges. In the final stage, the tercio de muerte ("the third of death"), the matador re-enters the ring alone with a small red cape (muleta) and a sword. It is a common misconception that the color red is supposed to anger the bull, despite the fact bulls are colorblind (the real reason that a red colored cape is used is that any blood stains on it will be less noticeable). He uses his cape to attract the bull in a series of passes, both demonstrating his control over it and risking his life by getting especially close to it. The faena (literally job) is the entire performance with the muleta, which is usually broken down into "tandas" or "series". The faena ends with a final series of passes in which the matador with a muleta attempts to maneuver the bull into a position to stab it between the shoulder blades and through the aorta or heart. The act of thrusting the sword is called an estocada. Occasionally, if the bull has fought bravely, and by petition of the public or the matador, the president of the plaza may grant the bull an indulto. This is when the bull’s life is spared and allowed to leave the ring alive and return to the ranch where it came from. However, few bulls survive the trip back to the ranch. With no veterinarian services at the plaza, most bulls die either while awaiting transportation or days later after arriving at their original ranch. Death is due to dehydration, infection of the wounds and loss of blood sustained during the fight. Link to post Share on other sites
fireman 10,795 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Can someone tell me what the feck has bull fighting got to do with hunting,it's all to do with false bravery and egos.The bull is in a ring he can't get out of,he is chased around it being speared,then he has a few spikes put into his back then and only when the big brave matador and his tight trousers think the bull is fecked will he enter the ring show off a bit then try to kill it.Hunting is the finding of a quarry in it's own enviroment and dispaching the said quarry in the shortest of time IS IT NOT? and using field craft to do so.Being a country man does not come into it in any way,the baiting of animals is for people who ain't got the balls for a ruck themselves.Just because something is legal don't make it right,tresspass isn't illigal but it's still not right.I enjoy the thrill of the chase but don't like a total war of stamina,running something to the point of exaustion is not for me and bull fighting isn't a fight,fresh bull,one man,one sword,one result but then some would say thats to dangerous for the men in tights.lol. Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 The guy handles the horse incredibly well,I wouldnt mind a front row seat ME TOO MACKEM ,,, THE THING IS TO MANY OUTSIDERS " WE " FOLLOWING OUR CHOSEN COUNTRY SPORTS ARE CRUEL YET ITS OUR TRADITION .... THE SAME AS THE SPANISH HAS THEIR BULL FIGHTING ........ TRADITIONS AND AT THE END OF THE DAY .... GOOD FIGHTING BULLS GET PUT TO STUD ............ NOT CASTRATED THEN HERDED INTO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE TO BE SHOT THROUGH THE HEAD AND GET THEIR THROATS CUT ......... MINCED AND THEN TURNED INTO BURGERS .............HALF EATEN ...........AND............ THROWN INTO BINS BY OVER WEIGHT KIDS WHO KNOW NOTHING OF LIFE / DEATH . THE COUNTRY SIDE ITS TRADITIONS OR THE HONOUR OF THE MATADORS " OH......... TO SEE OURSELVES AS OTHERS SEE US ! " ALL THE BEST DUCKWING Me three. This need to criticise the traditions of others, without understanding, is the reason why our traditions are being constantly eroded. It's none of our business what they do. It's their culture and they can do as they please. Link to post Share on other sites
Back Stabbath 1 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Another thing to consider is that these people are making money from bullfighting shows. Anywhere that kind of money is involved, welfare is gonna be compromised. I think at this stage is more of a tourist attraction. Edited October 30, 2008 by Back Stabbath Link to post Share on other sites
Dawn B 212 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 the horns are untouched , i think you maybe thinking of rodeo , it is tradition just like fox hunting was yours Nope not wrong this time either. Before entering the ring, the bull is often handicapped - although this is officially illegal - by filing its horns so that it misjudges attempts to gore the matador and by smearing vaseline into its eyes to blur its vision. A well-known bullfight veterinarian, Dr. Manuel Sanz, reports that in 1987 more than 90 percent of bulls killed in fights had their horns "shaved" before the fight. Horn shaving involves sawing off several inches of the horns so the bull misses his thrusts. Many times the matador is a son, or even a son in-law of the breeder, and shaving the horns of a bull to protect the matador seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and it is, in that argument. But it undoubtably puts el toro bravo at a disadvantage; so much of a disadvantage that the national government took steps to inspect the horns of the bulls post-mortem. El toro bravo with shaven horns would result in penalties and punishment for the breeder. As I said, cowards! Link to post Share on other sites
Dawn B 212 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Just so everyone is clear!!! Portugues Bull Fighting: Cavaleiro and bullMain article: Portuguese-style bullfighting Most Portuguese bullfights are held in two phases: the spectacle of the cavaleiro, and the pega. In the cavaleiro, a horseman on a Portuguese Lusitano horse (specially trained for the fights) fights the bull from horseback. The purpose of this fight is to stab three or four bandeirilhas (small javelins) in the back of the bull. The pega.In the second stage, called the pega ("holding"), the forcados, a group of eight men, challenge the bull directly without any protection or weapon of defense. The front man provokes the bull into a charge to perform a pega de cara or pega de caras (face grab). The front man secures the animal's head and is quickly aided by his fellows who surround and secure the animal until he is subdued. [9] The bull is not killed in the ring and, at the end of the corrida, leading oxen are let into the arena and two campinos on foot herd the bull along them back to its pen. The bull is usually killed, away from the audience's sight, by a professional butcher. It can happen that some bulls, after an exceptional performance, are healed, released to pasture until their end days and used for breeding. Thanks Jembo, I thought I was right. I assumed we were discussing Bull fighting as its a Spanish tradition more so than Portuguese. Link to post Share on other sites
Back Stabbath 1 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Exactly Dawn B, to the previous post. Its a big buisness and theres always corruption. Edited October 30, 2008 by Back Stabbath Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Another thing to consider is that these people are making money from bullfighting shows. Anywhere that kind of money is involved, welfare is gonna be compromised. I think at this stage is more of a tourist attraction. That's a hell of a generalisation there fella. Where's your next stop, game shoots? Link to post Share on other sites
mackem 24,131 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 This has gone off on a whole new tangent,it started off as an appreciation of man and horse skills,easy answer is if its not your cup of tea dont watch,we have freedom of choice,we are lucky,but it was people who didnt like fox-hunting that started the downslide and gave the antis a strong victory Thank f*ck the spanish couldnt give tuppence ha'penny about antis Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I agree with you there Mackem. I wonder whether we were so busy condemning other cultures that we failed to see our own disappear. As you've said though, the Spanish won't give a f**k either way. Good on 'em. Link to post Share on other sites
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