ESS Breeding potential ?

[Bunny-Blaster 0]

Hi there, I am very interested in the possibilities of breeding my ESS Sam. I'm not sure if anyone would agree with me or not but I feel that I have fallen on a beautifull dog with a great temperament and with possible breeding potential?

 

I would be happy to hear your suggestions, advice and feedback on his bloodline and ways to go about breeding him etc.

 

Sam is 12 Months old now and here is a basic breakdown of his Pedigree:

 

Hawthorne Just Sam (Mine)

S Hawthorne Dandy

D Hawthorne Dash

 

GP:

S: Windholme Fen Ash

D: Blazing Imp

S: Monpressons Merrill

D: Hollycroft Contessa

 

GGP:

S: Parbeck Agnew

D: Windholme Winter Wren

S: Windholme Winter Wasp

D: Windholme Gameseeker

 

S: Holmegate Houdini

D: Kenness Smug

S: Grand Illusion

D: Stubbinwood Molly

 

GGGP:

S: Badgercourt Moss FTCH

D: Parkeck Advent FTW

S: Kettlestrang Clipper FTCH

D: Vickies Friend

S: Kennine Robb of Rytex FTCH

D: Vickies Friend

S: Kennine Robb of Rytex FTCH

D: Mansfield Bracken

 

S: Chancellors Lad

D: Shirland Bran

S: Badgercourt Moss FTCH

D: Throckmorton Princess

S: Holmebird Brandy

D: Playfull Saville Suzi

S: Webbswood Hornpipe

D: Ballperk Bracken

 

Priors to that include:

Badgercourt Druid FTCH

Badgercourt Susan FTCH

Badgercourt Dusty FTCH

Badgercourt Colleen FTW

Rytex Rod FTCH

Rytex Ribble FTW

Rytex Ria FTCH

Inlers Harry Slin International FTCH

 

To name but a few….

 

Hope to hear from you all soon

 

Jase

 

Here he is at 9/10 Months old

 

[markbivvy 6]

work or pet please.

[Bunny-Blaster 0]

work or pet please.

 

 

He is currently a pet..however I have been training him to retreive fur and feathered dummys for the last 4 months on an off and he is beginning to respond to the whistle along with my introducing him steadily to water.

 

I would love to do more work based training with him, but unfortunately, I have limmited knowledge of training regeme's...only what I have learned from DVD's etc....

[lampinglurcher 36]

other than natural instinct to hunt and retrieve a very key factor is steadiness, if the dog isnt steady in the field i wouldnt personally breed from him - names in a pedigree mean nothing in the field

[Bunny-Blaster 0]

other than natural instinct to hunt and retrieve a very key factor is steadiness, if the dog isnt steady in the field i wouldnt personally breed from him - names in a pedigree mean nothing in the field

 

That makes a lot of sense...thank you. I have been working on steadiness to a certain degree but inter-weiving it with retreiving to make the sessions fun....I do now think that steadiness needs to be my No1 priority...obviously without the steadiness the dog is a liability in the field.

 

Many thanks.

 

Jase

[coldweld 65]

First question the reasons you want to breed your dog ?

 

Because you like him

Because he looks good and has a nice persona

Because he is an out standing example of an ESS

Because you want a pup that is an exact replica

Because he has clear eye's and 00 hip scores

The stud fee would hardly be worth having

Because he is one of the best working dogs in the country

 

No wanting to sound negative and he is a nice dog and my favorite ESS colour. But his pedigree is not outstanding my own bitch has 27 FTCH and 13 FTW out of 62 dogs and i can't say if she is worth breeding from yet . There are thousands of ESS out there but think very carefully before you breed.

 

Enjoy your dog !

[coupe312 0]

my dog has sired three little due to careful breading.

 

he has no paper but can trace back the famly lines easy. know both his mum and dads owner and both have excellent papers

 

people ask me if they could breed from him not because of anything but how well he works and his personality

 

i understand why people checks the paper and go into background esp if they don't know the dog.

 

but i feel each dog must earn his own merrit and knowing or have been working with that dog/ bitch is the best way.

 

all except one of the pups have gone forward as workers the other has been a pet( well farm dog).

 

 

getting back to the point in my eyes if he has desirable charictoristic that the key.

[lampinglurcher 36]

personally i think that other than looking nice on the paper and selling for a higher price, a dog with good names in dont mean shit except its ancestors are good... if the dog is worth its metal, steady as a rock, obedient, healthy in all ways and keen then go for it fella.

best of luck mate, sorry if that sounds really critical but there are so many dogs with "good ancestory" in the gundog world that are sold for a mint but are in themselves not very good.

matt

[Bunny-Blaster 0]

First question the reasons you want to breed your dog ?

 

Because you like him

Because he looks good and has a nice persona

Because he is an out standing example of an ESS

Because you want a pup that is an exact replica

Because he has clear eye's and 00 hip scores

The stud fee would hardly be worth having

Because he is one of the best working dogs in the country

 

No wanting to sound negative and he is a nice dog and my favorite ESS colour. But his pedigree is not outstanding my own bitch has 27 FTCH and 13 FTW out of 62 dogs and i can't say if she is worth breeding from yet . There are thousands of ESS out there but think very carefully before you breed.

 

Enjoy your dog !

 

Thanks everyone for your feed back....with regards to the above I can tick all boxes apart from the botom one, as Sam has not been proven in the Field....I love this Dog and would love to see him sire some brilliant offspring...however, as has been said previously, there are better out there and I would hate to sire some pups that are no use and become unwanted...that would be my worst nightmare.

 

I might just have to take the plunge at some point once Sam has proven his steadiness to me and others tho, as I would realy like to see some good offspring produced from him....Steadiness is the key tho and untill this has been proven I wont even consider him for breeding..unless he is to line a dam purely just for pets in the first instance....we all have to star somewhere

 

Once again many thanks for everyones feedback and advice...it is much appreciated.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Jase

[Bunny-Blaster 0]

Just wanted to say that I took Sam out again this wekend to add to his training and I managed to keep him reasonably steady for his first ever mainly focust training session which I dedicated to steadiness and water retreives.

 

I know the standard thing is little and often but once out in the valleys with Sam he never wants to stop...I have gradualy introduced him to water and the deepest he has been was up to his chin. This weekend I quickly made him think a small log was his dummy by showing him the dummy then turning my back and throwing the log instead of the dummy.....

 

I threw it about 10 feet out, where I knew the water got deep all of a sudden.....It was make or break time...he swam to the log realised it wasnt his dummy and returned back to me without it.....never mind... he actualy swam once he was in deep water and I was over the moon for him.

 

Unpeterbed with the failed retreive, I showed Sam my quarter full water bottle and excited him with it as I did with the dummy the first few times I introduced him to it and then I threw it in to the pond about 13 feet from the bank.

 

The reason I didnt want to use the dummy was the water was totaly still and I knew a failed retreive would cost me a dummy and a brand new hare pelt..

 

Anyway...Sam dived in without hesitation swam directly to mywater bottle and completed a retreive straight back to my feet....RESULT !!! I was so proud of him !!

 

I then repeated this 3 more times.. further out each time and he completed each and every retreive like a seasoned Pro....I was so happy with him and he just loved the attention.

 

His last wet retreive lacked a little enthusiasm so I didnt push him any further, but all the way back to the car (3/4 mile) he just kept stopping and looking at my game bag for me to throw him even more dry retreives.....

 

He had already completed probably a good 25 already not including the wet ones and I had steadied him on probably 10 of those with varied results. I let him have another dozen retreives as walked back along the trail, then I put him back on the lead as we approached the busy main road where I had parked, with thoughts of more stadiness training in a day or two going through my head.

 

What a fantastic days training and what a fantastic dog to do it with.....

 

[pot shot 0]

i was wondering , are you planning to work sam?

in my experience steddiness can really only be confirmed when the dog is out doing the job its been aimed at.

[druimmuir 1]

The hard reality of it is why would someone use your dog rather than any ftw's or ftch's in the area ? what sets him apart from other stud dogs on offer ? Most other non-trialled dogs at stud are used as people watch them daily or weekly working their socks off at a shoot and are good honest workers, so they know what they are going to get pup wise.

 

Nicola

[coupe312 0]

best way to prove you dog islet it gain its own merrits out in the feild in a shooting or beating line.

 

people will come to you. unless your running your dog as a business people will come to you by seeing him work and word of mouth.

 

good luck with it shouldn't be too hard..... good workers aren't that easy to find.

[Bunny-Blaster 0]

Sorry for my slow reply and thank you for all your comments.

 

The reason I considered Sam for breeding was after speaking to a couple of my friends who have been connected in different ways with the breeding of dogs…although not professionally, they suggested that I should consider breeding him.

 

They looked in to my Sam’s pedigree and were reasonably impressed with some of the name that popped up in his linage, Such as Badgercourt Moss etc.

 

Their advice was that it is better to breed from a dog with good linage that can then be trained to perform in the field rather than breed from an unknown linage that already works the field and could have inherent linage defects….is this good advice?.....all I know is they certainly seem to know their dogs and regularly hold long conversations with other dog owners about the likes of Lurchers, Border Collie’s and Terriers etc

 

Other factors added to this are Sam’s good health, looks and temperament witch are naturally good things to have if considering for breeding.

 

I began training Sam roughly 4 Months ago and most sessions he seems to come on leaps and bounds, which would also indicate intelligence and he also never tires.

 

I have every intention of attending a few clay shoots to accustom him to the sound of the guns and then to attend driven shoots so as to use him for beating/flushing. Once he has proved himself worthy, I shall hopefully move on to picking up with him, as his retrieving skills are excellent.

 

Steadiness is my main focal point at the moment however and I hope he will come on leaps and bounds with this also as this is obviously the key element.

 

Fingers crossed that my inexperience won’t let him down.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Jase

[kiwi 4]

you have time on your side, put the work and training into him and get an honest opinion of him from other spaniel people see how he is after a few seasons then if he is doing the job well find a bitch of similar strenghts and the right paperwork to try and improve any weakness that may show up.

steadiness is trained in not bred in............the right biddable temp that allows steadyness training to be easy is what you are after....... i believe paperwork is important, it's not a blank cheque to charge more.