feo is he talking rubish

[scotlandforever 0]

well lad's and lassie's

 

had the feo out today to have an interview with me about my sgc everything went well but he said that because of my age (15) he said that i had to shoot with someone over 21

 

now is this true because i had a look on the basc website and found this

 

and i also phoned ian clarck who said that i was able to shoot my self so was wondering since theres so much knowledge on this site if some of the people in the know about this could shed some light on it

 

Thanks

 

Jason

[SportingShooter 0]

it is a strange situation when an officer in charge of ensuring the suitability of a candidate for shotguns gives the wrong advice. to quote from the Met Police firearms page.Possess a shotgun if covered and secured from the age of 15 years

this means you can use the gun unaccompanied, the only thing you cannot do is buy guns and cartridges. and i also quote from the BASC website.After reaching the age of 15 a person may use a shotgun without supervision, providing he/she holds a valid shotgun certificate.

this is the correct advice and has always been so, i dont know if the FEO you saw is new or something similar but he still should know his stuff and is wrong. perhaps you should contact him in case he puts a condition on your cert, this is unusual on SGC but it can happen.

i hope this helps clarify things

ss06

[Foxgun Tom 75]

The FEO is talkng mince there should be no restrictions on your certificate of anykind re:shooting with anyone else, wait and see what happens when it comes, if there's a problem (I don't think there will be) We'll (SACs) get it sorted

 

Tom

 

well lad's and lassie's

 

had the feo out today to have an interview with me about my sgc everything went well but he said that because of my age (15) he said that i had to shoot with someone over 21

 

now is this true because i had a look on the basc website and found this

 

and i also phoned ian clarck who said that i was able to shoot my self so was wondering since theres so much knowledge on this site if some of the people in the know about this could shed some light on it

 

Thanks

 

Jason

Edited February 8, 2008 by Foxgun Tom

[scotlandforever 0]

thanks alt guy's for clearing that up the feo today seemed as if he was strugling a bit i think he had just been given a bit of paper and told to come and interview me

 

he niver even looked at my cabinet or my permission

 

Jason

[Deker 3,453]

scotlandforever and EVERYONE

 

A few points here...First off you do not need ANY permission for a SGC, neither do you need a cabinet as long as you have ground anchorage (although this is not recommended)

 

With regards your FEO visit, the Law lays down the bare minimum requirements, now, he may well be mistaken anyway and there may well not be a problem but he is/the Chief Officer of Police is quite within their rights and powers to add ANY condition they want to ANY SGC or FAC if they deem it required.

 

Lets hope he is just a bit confused, but if he considers there is a valid reason to add that condition there is little you can do to stop him.

 

So guys, please calm down about him being :wacko: :crazy: , when it comes to SGC and FAC he is nearly God.

 

ATB

 

Deker

Edited February 9, 2008 by Deker

[SportingShooter 0]

scotlandforever and EVERYONE

 

A few points here...First off you do not need ANY permission for a SGC, neither do you need a cabinet as long as you have ground anchorage (although this is not recommended)

 

With regards your FEO visit, the Law lays down the bare minimum requirements, now, he may well be mistaken anyway and there may well not be a problem but he is/the Chief Officer of Police is quite within their rights and powers to add ANY condition they want to ANY SGC or FAC if they deem it required.

 

Lets hope he is just a bit confused, but if he considers there is a valid reason to add that condition there is little you can do to stop him.

 

So guys, please calm down about him being :wacko: :crazy: , when it comes to SGC and FAC he is nearly God.

 

ATB

 

Deker

Deker,

if they do put a condition on his licence surely he can appeal against it using BASC or SACS as it is a little unfair. i had my first sgc when i was just over 15 and did not have this condition and neither did friends of mine.

did you hear about the ACPO's advice recently publsihed for guidance to the police on putting conditions on certificates, im not sure whether this was purely FAC but it said that the conditions put on in one part of the country should be no different to any other and vice versa.

please do correct me if im barking up the wrong tree!

thanks ss06

[scotlandforever 0]

well lads

 

if and when i get my sgc i have to phone ian clark and he is going to sort it out for me so thanks for the input

 

Jason

[Deker 3,453]

scotlandforever and EVERYONE

 

A few points here...First off you do not need ANY permission for a SGC, neither do you need a cabinet as long as you have ground anchorage (although this is not recommended)

 

With regards your FEO visit, the Law lays down the bare minimum requirements, now, he may well be mistaken anyway and there may well not be a problem but he is/the Chief Officer of Police is quite within their rights and powers to add ANY condition they want to ANY SGC or FAC if they deem it required.

 

Lets hope he is just a bit confused, but if he considers there is a valid reason to add that condition there is little you can do to stop him.

 

So guys, please calm down about him being :wacko: :crazy: , when it comes to SGC and FAC he is nearly God.

 

ATB

 

Deker

Deker,

if they do put a condition on his licence surely he can appeal against it using BASC or SACS as it is a little unfair. i had my first sgc when i was just over 15 and did not have this condition and neither did friends of mine.

did you hear about the ACPO's advice recently publsihed for guidance to the police on putting conditions on certificates, im not sure whether this was purely FAC but it said that the conditions put on in one part of the country should be no different to any other and vice versa.

please do correct me if im barking up the wrong tree!

thanks ss06

 

 

 

Hi all

 

Of course their is an avenue of appeal and it sometimes works, and you do not need any organisation to do this for you either.

 

Please do not misunderstand me, I am not making any individual value judgement on this specific situation, I am simply making the point where everyone seems to be suggesting of the FEO "he's mad"," he doesn't know what he is talking about", "he can't do that". Well, he may be wrong or mixed up, but he most certainly CAN do that.

 

Moving to the wider issues raised....I am Secretary of a Rifle Club at Bisley and as our members come from all reaches, it is my unfortunate duty to talk to Firarms Departments from many Police regions. Interpretation of the laws around the different regions has been a constant cause of frustration for many and they should be administered the same everywhere. But ACPO cannot administer anything unilaterally, Hampshire and Thames Valley interpret "Speeding" as 10% plus 2mph, and 10% plus 3mph over the given limit. If they can't sort out something as apparently simple as that together what chance the rest, despite what they may say.

 

Now then... to take another example close to home, but using it as an EXAMPLE ONLY, by no means a comment on this individual situation.

A FEO visits a 15 year old in Swindon and decides he's mature, responsible, knowledgeable, calm, sound etc etc!

A FEO visits a 15 year old in Manchester and decides he is unstable, volotile, immature, knows nothing about guns!

Would you be surprised if he reached a different decision and/or decided to add some conditions to one?

It does not mean the law is being interpreted differently!

 

Cheers

 

Deker

Edited February 9, 2008 by Deker

[SportingShooter 0]

Thanks for clearing things up Deker.

i can see exactly where your coming from and it seems downright daft that something such as administration could not be done the same over the different forces in this country when everything ought to be the same anyway.

thanks again

ss06

[Foxgun Tom 75]

FEO he is nearly God. He most certainly is not!!!

 

 

And no-one making an application should fear or be intimidated by them!!! All police forces have their own list of guidelines,they are just that guidelines and not acts of statute Police Forces are not there to interpret any legislation and that includes firearms legislation, they are there to enforce it!! All Judges/Sherrifs would ignore police guidelines as the have no standing in law!!

 

Deker Say's

 

A FEO visits a 15 year old in Swindon and decides he's mature, responsible, knowledgeable, calm, sound etc etc!

A FEO visits a 15 year old in Manchester and decides he is unstable, volotile, immature, knows nothing about guns!

 

The majority of FEO's in Scotland are civilians sometimes ex police officers, sometimes not!! No FEO could possibly get away with determining wether any 15 year old is unstable, volatile or immature? the reason is !!they are not qualified in the fields of psychology or psyschiatry thats why they ask doctors for any reason why in their opinion an individual should not hold a certificate remember another interesting fact is your medical records are not made available to the police unless they are specifically asked for and you give permission !! The enquiry officer is only doing his job and that is to make enquiries, he does not decide wether a 15 year old gets a certificate! the Chief Constable does if he refuses a certificate or puts unreasonable conditions that is a matter for appeal either to the Chief Constable or the courts, thats where SACs, BASC etc come in. both 15 year olds under the law should be treated the same

 

Tom say's

 

A FEO visits a 15 year old in Swindon and decides he's mature, responsible, knowledgeable, calm, sound etc etc! but he's got a conviction for for public order offences when he was 13?

 

A FEO visits a 15 year old in Manchester and decides he is unstable, volotile, immature, knows nothing about guns! etc! But he has no convictions, attends church regularly and helps out at a local youth club?

 

And FEO's do get it wrong!! the one who visited me recently finished my interview re; a renewal, my old license had expired and I put my guns into storage with a friend I informed the police of this, The FEO informed me he wanted to check my guns and their serial no's, I informed him my license was no longer valid and the guns were in storage I also told him "If I have any guns in the house without a valid certificate I'm liable to be charged under the firearms act"

 

Tom

Edited February 9, 2008 by Foxgun Tom

[scotlandforever 0]

so i was right about me being aloud to shoot by my self and the feo was wrong

 

i thought he was wrong

 

Jason

Edited February 9, 2008 by scotlandforever

[foxdropper 17,092]

"And no-one making an application should fear or be intimidated by them!!! All police forces have their own list of guidelines,they are just that guidelines and not acts of statute Police Forces are not there to interpret any legislation and that includes firearms legislation, they are there to enforce it!! All Judges/Sherrifs would ignore police guidelines as the have no standing in law!!"

 

Understand what your saying Tom but there must be some sort of interpretation on their behalf or there would be chaos .In my experience ,its better to be on side than to rebel against them .A chap locally refused to let the feo in his house to inspect the cabinet and was not granted a ticket on these grounds .The case went to appeal but he still dosnt have a ticket .

[jamie g 17]

it sounds silly but most of this mentoring lark is down to some feo's that dont no much about rifles

i have mentoring on mine and when i said i was going for 17 hmr he didnt even no what it was

he was getting it mixed up with 17 centrefire so some on them panick and put stuff on the ticket to cover there own back. the way i see it is they shouldnt give the jobs to people that haven been around guns or no about guns.

 

because at the end of the day you mite no more about rifles and shotguns then he does !

so how is it fair for him to say weather you cant have it if he doesnt no anything about them

 

yet most people i no that have them havent had any trouble. when i asked about there feo's

9 times out of ten there feo's where shooters or ex shooter them selfs

Edited February 9, 2008 by jamie g

[Foxgun Tom 75]

I'm not suggesting or asking anyone to rebel against the FEO I'm only stating what they're remit is!! and the rights of the aplicant when co-operating!! If someone is refusing a reasonable request for the cops to check security arrangements I'm not surprised he was refused his ticket, that request of inspection is for our safety (the general public) as well as his!! Thats a strange situation whats the guy got to hide

 

Tom

 

"And no-one making an application should fear or be intimidated by them!!! All police forces have their own list of guidelines,they are just that guidelines and not acts of statute Police Forces are not there to interpret any legislation and that includes firearms legislation, they are there to enforce it!! All Judges/Sherrifs would ignore police guidelines as the have no standing in law!!"

 

Understand what your saying Tom but there must be some sort of interpretation on their behalf or there would be chaos .In my experience ,its better to be on side than to rebel against them .A chap locally refused to let the feo in his house to inspect the cabinet and was not granted a ticket on these grounds .The case went to appeal but he still dosnt have a ticket .

Edited February 9, 2008 by Foxgun Tom

[foxdropper 17,092]

Well ,as deker said ,theres no law says that you need a cabinet and as far as i know theres no law stating they have to inspect your security .If theres ground for an arrest on firearms charges they will get a warrant but you are not obliged to let them in ,even on routine visits .