North Korea

[Paulnix 426]

By coincidence there was a programme on a history channel last week about the USAF fighting Russian air force in MiG alley, it made it seem that was a good job the yanks fighter jets ( Sabres ? ) were better by a good margin over the MiGs or it could of been a lot different as the Russian pilots were very experienced a lot of them were world war two aces.

I did know an old boy who fought there, he reckon was a good job the UK were involved as we got the other UN forces out of a lot of bother when the Chinks poured over by filling some holes and covering retreats when our allies ran, although he never said they could of held them back if they didn't run it would of just been more dead but he was a bit bitter about how they ran.

 

Before any action is taken I think anyone would have to pass it by the Chinese and maybe the Russian first, from what we hear they have distanced themselves somewhat from North Korea and best for everyone would be let the Chinese do the job and give them the credit.

[Nik_B 3,791]

The US has a big hold over the Chinese which it can use as a bargaining tool. The Chinese economy is quite flakey at the moment and any trade tariffs would probably cause it a fairly severe financial meltdown. They can use that to get some agreement with the Chinese. The Chinese aren't going to be happy with a reunified NK and even Hillary Clinton is on record saying they didn't want that either, nor would the Japanese I imagine.

 

Regarding the airwar those Migs were actually very good I think it was mainly superiority in training that gave them the upper hand. I guess they covered it in the documentary but the US put a $100,000 dollar reward for any Korean pilot who would hand over a Mig-15 and one eventually did. They shipped the plane back to the US and tested it to find the areas where the Sabre could defeat it especially as the MIg could out climb the Sabre. The US did the same thing during Vietnam and managed to get a Mig-21 to test, it was given to the top gun program where they used it to train F4 Phantom pilots to be able to defeat the Vietnamese, Chinese (and maybe Russian) Mig pilots.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

The US has a big hold over the Chinese which it can use as a bargaining tool. The Chinese economy is quite flakey at the moment and any trade tariffs would probably cause it a fairly severe financial meltdown. They can use that to get some agreement with the Chinese. The Chinese aren't going to be happy with a reunified NK and even Hillary Clinton is on record saying they didn't want that either, nor would the Japanese I imagine.

 

After the last economic snafu the Chinese also own a fuckton of the US debt. It's not all a one way street. I personally don't think there is a serious threat. The Kim dynasty has been contained for nearly 65 years. They're starving to death and live in bigger echo chamber than the General Talk forum. I think the Chinese are more than willing and capable of dealing with their retarded little brother. The biggest issue, I see, is a certain newbie wading in stealing their retarded brother's ball.

[Nik_B 3,791]

 

The US has a big hold over the Chinese which it can use as a bargaining tool. The Chinese economy is quite flakey at the moment and any trade tariffs would probably cause it a fairly severe financial meltdown. They can use that to get some agreement with the Chinese. The Chinese aren't going to be happy with a reunified NK and even Hillary Clinton is on record saying they didn't want that either, nor would the Japanese I imagine.

 

After the last economic snafu the Chinese also own a fuckton of the US debt. It's not all a one way street. I personally don't think there is a serious threat. The Kim dynasty has been contained for nearly 65 years. They're starving to death and live in bigger echo chamber than the General Talk forum. I think the Chinese are more than willing and capable of dealing with their retarded little brother. The biggest issue, I see, is a certain newbie wading in stealing their retarded brother's ball.

 

 

If NK gets Nukes the Japanese will build theirs virtually overnight, they are considered to be a nuclear power because they have everything they need to build them. Next up would be South Korea who are more than able to start a nuclear program and then nonproliferation in the region goes down the toilet.

 

I think we will see either way fairly soon though, either they give up their nuclear program and in return they'll probably get sanctions dropped maybe even an official end to the war or they'll do another test (because they have yet to miniaturise the warhead sufficiently for a missile) and the US will probably have no option but to carry out some airstrikes, I don't think the Chinese will defend them as long as their is no attempt at invading & a push for reunification. If they do absolutely nothing they will only have a nuclear device not a warhead....in this situation I think the US might have to just sit tight and wait it out but then that's a lot of deployed forces to have floating around.

 

I'm not sure Trump has much to do with this one, this is foreign policy planned quite some time ago and he is acting on what the military/strategic advisors are telling him, I'm pretty sure Clinton would be doing exactly the same thing had she won the election.

 

It does very much come down to China, it can chose to help and get favorable deals with the US or do nothing and there could be the trade tariffs Trump talked about which would cause them serious economic strife.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

I still think cooler heads will prevail. The Chinese have done more with trade than anything else. Fatty will get reigned in and the sky probably won't fall.

 

If he decides to go full retard then we'll see quite the light show.

[Nik_B 3,791]

I still think cooler heads will prevail. The Chinese have done more with trade than anything else. Fatty will get reigned in and the sky probably won't fall.

 

If he decides to go full retard then we'll see quite the light show.

 

The issue is that they have a nuclear device, in Iran's case they came very close to being attacked, you could argue they were since their centrifuges were targeted by a virus.

 

I didn't say the sky would fall in, I said I think the US is seriously poised to attack NK facilities, 3 carrier strike groups, 1 Japanese strike group and 2-4 US nuclear subs plus EW aircraft which has been located there recently is either a bluff or a serious message....if NK doesn't take it seriously I say airstrikes will happen quite soon.

 

I know someone who works in the army doing terrain mapping, at the time I said well that's not somewhere dangerous to be since there is no chance of war compared to the ME.....that was just last year and now I am wondering why they were sending the British Army to do that...maybe it was simply standard stuff or training, hard to tell.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

I can't really argue with that, Nik but watching NK posture is like watching a drunk try to throw a shoe over a pub. It's f***ing laughable. I mean these are people that are suffering a rolling famine

If the US is poised to attack, and I honestly believe it's sabre rattling of the new administration, then the guy that issues the order is risking political suicide with the American taxpayer. Despite what you might read on BNN (Bannon News Network) the American public don't have the stomach for another war... Fatty has been warning his people of another approaching famine since early 2016 and there are fairly regular reports of cannibalism, coming out of NK this decade. I can't help but think that this is a training exercise being simultaneously used to show off the new administration and distract our attention from Donnie's piss poor domestic ratings. Overthrowing a despot is good for the polls.

Edited May 31, 2017 by ChrisJones

[Nik_B 3,791]

Where do you stand on their nuclear program? Do you think they should be allowed to continue testing and develop a warhead, they are probably not far off that at all, they may have also tested a second generation nuke which is otherwise called hydrogen bomb or thermonuclear bomb so their technology is reasonably advanced.

 

We don't have to turn every thread in to a Trump thread, this is an issue that any US president would have to be dealing with, within months they could have a nuclear missile (not ICBM) which can strike US bases in the Pacific, Japan and South Korea. Once they have that capability there is no turning back.

 

I'm also not sure what your reference to Breitbart means, I barely read it but I would be careful believing what are clearly propaganda pieces designed to make us think NK is about to collapse, that is probably not going to happen in the foreseeable future, people have been predicting their demise for years if not decades.

 

At the moment their airforce is a joke and would be wiped out on day one, their surface to air missile batteries are 60s and 70s technology apart from a battery of S-300 copies so fairly dangerous but this was what the stealth aircraft were designed to defeat as well as give some survivability against state of the art Russian designs. There is a window of opportunity and I think there will be a lot of Neocons, Liberal interventionists and especially military planners who will push for an ultimatum very soon.

 

In your opinion should they be allowed to finish weaponizing their nuclear weapons or not?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Where do you stand on their nuclear program? Do you think they should be allowed to continue testing and develop a warhead, they are probably not far off that at all, they may have also tested a second generation nuke which is otherwise called hydrogen bomb or thermonuclear bomb so their technology is reasonably advanced.

I stand where pretty much everyone else does, although I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they're further advanced than we think. Loonies with doomsday devices are never a good idea. They're going to do it anyway, though, so what do you propose? Let the cooler heads prevail or poke the emaciated bear?

 

We don't have to turn every thread in to a Trump thread, this is an issue that any US president would have to be dealing with, within months they could have a nuclear missile (not ICBM) which can strike US bases in the Pacific, Japan and South Korea. Once they have that capability there is no turning back.

Agreed but on this thread is pretty poignant. Under another president this would have been business as usual not a misdirection from a second rate svengali. Like it or not he's not very popular at the moment and these stunts really do work with core voters. That's not me being a dick, that's just politics.

 

I'm also not sure what your reference to Breitbart means, I barely read it but I would be careful believing what are clearly propaganda pieces designed to make us think NK is about to collapse, that is probably not going to happen in the foreseeable future, people have been predicting their demise for years if not decades.

Mate, I'm extremely careful reading anything that comes out. My point is that whichever echo chamber you're immersed in you're getting an agenda. I don't think that NK is about to collapse, and I equally don't think that we're on the verge of WW3. That pretty much covers both BNN and CNN.

 

What I see is are two loonies, with access to doomsday devices, with little to no political experience, poking each other to see who bites. They both have the eyes of the world on them and they're both pandering to their support base. They're both narcissists to boot! The only difference is that on our side we have access to multiple layers of information where the Koreans only have one. The downside is that our side only look at their preconceived biases so they might as well only have one state sanctioned, party approved, media source. The result is exactly the same.

 

We have more in common with NK than most realise! Maybe we should be negotiating!

 

At the moment their airforce is a joke and would be wiped out on day one, their surface to air missile batteries are 60s and 70s technology apart from a battery of S-300 copies so fairly dangerous but this was what the stealth aircraft were designed to defeat as well as give some survivability against state of the art Russian designs. There is a window of opportunity and I think there will be a lot of Neocons, Liberal interventionists and especially military planners who will push for an ultimatum very soon.

The idea that they could stand alone and offer any kind of military resistance is laughable. On top of everything you've listed their soldiers are an average of 4" shorter than their SK counterparts because multiple generations have been systematically starved over the last 65 years. Again they're on a rolling famine. There are regular reports of them eating their weaker citizens to survive. If anything resembling Red Dawn were to happen most of these soldiers would be immediately surrendering for a bowl of ramen!

 

I can agree that someone will be pushing for an ultimatum but we should be leaning on the Chinese to get Fatty to wind his f***ing neck in. Not looking at ways to involve multiple NATO countries into a war that nobody wants.

 

In your opinion should they be allowed to finish weaponizing their nuclear weapons or not?

As I said earlier I'm pretty much with everyone on this one. It's a big NO. Do you think military intervention and trillions of £'s should be spent on what is currently a political stunt by a 4th world dictator?

[Born Hunter 17,960]

God the world would be a much more boring place without the mad little f****r. I say keep him for comedy value!

 

But seriously, I'm not sure I want to be the yank administration having to negotiate with him when he does possess a credible nuclear weapons system! The bollocks isn't going to change, but the DPRK capability to strike will do. Eventually they'll get sub launched ballistic missiles and subs capable of penetrating close enough to use them.

 

If you think he can be negotiated with then ya stand down and play the game. If ya think that with that system he can't be negotiated with then you have no choice but to flatten the c**t now.

 

The yanks may well cut a deal with the Chinese to do the leg work and then pass the territory over to them to be treated as an "autonomous territory" or some such.

[Nik_B 3,791]

God the world would be a much more boring place without the mad little f****r. I say keep him for comedy value!

 

But seriously, I'm not sure I want to be the yank administration having to negotiate with him when he does possess a credible nuclear weapons system! The bollocks isn't going to change, but the DPRK capability to strike will do. Eventually they'll get sub launched ballistic missiles and subs capable of penetrating close enough to use them.

 

If you think he can be negotiated with then ya stand down and play the game. If ya think that with that system he can't be negotiated with then you have no choice but to flatten the c**t now.

 

The yanks may well cut a deal with the Chinese to do the leg work and then pass the territory over to them to be treated as an "autonomous territory" or some such.

 

I agree with you there especially your last line, I think that is very viable. The US can't negotiate with NK because they don't really have much diplomatic connections so they do it via Beijing, I think the Chinese have enough problems on their hands with their ballooning public debt which isn't going to end well for them and their economic situation makes a negotiation much more likely than day 5 years ago.

 

Iran did very well from their nuclear deals and NK could do so also, an end to perma-war and the lifting of some sanctions would keep their regime alive a lot longer.

 

I also agree that once he has real nukes that can be launched it's game over and there will be no chance of negotiations....it's been interesting since this has been bubbling away for years and is now reaching the point where something has to happen.