Lions & Tigers & Bears Oh My...

[BlueCoyote 0]

not far from where i live there is Saint Vincent Island that was once a game preserve with exotics like zebras, elands, black bucks, ring-necked pheasants, Asian jungle fowl, and sambra deer... which are like north american elk..

 

that was back in 1948 and so far all that remains is the sambra... and a family pack of red wolves.. along with native Florida wild life... according to the rangers life is good on the island.. i have been dying to take the guided tour..

 

and no.. no hunting allowed on the island. probably because of the wolves..

 

Now one question...

the wolves he is proposing to introduce.. are they like the Grey Wolf in America or are they European wolves? from what i understand there is a difference in size and social order..... Eurpopean wolves, i think, are like our red wolves... they're smaller in size, and they dont live in large packs... just a small family unit..

[Guest Lord B]

not far from where i live there is Saint Vincent Island that was once a game preserve with exotics like zebras, elands, black bucks, ring-necked pheasants, Asian jungle fowl, and sambra deer... which are like north american elk..

 

that was back in 1948 and so far all that remains is the sambra... and a family pack of red wolves.. along with native Florida wild life... according to the rangers life is good on the island.. i have been dying to take the guided tour..

 

and no.. no hunting allowed on the island. probably because of the wolves..

 

Now one question...

the wolves he is proposing to introduce.. are they like the Grey Wolf in America or are they European wolves? from what i understand there is a difference in size and social order..... Eurpopean wolves, i think, are like our red wolves... they're smaller in size, and they dont live in large packs... just a small family unit..

 

As I understand it its European wolves, but I can't find the relevnt article now.......

 

Funny how all that is left on St Vincent is the Sambra and wolf!!

[Guest Lord B]

just found this on another thread here........a bear attack by all accounts......

 

Next time I'm stalking in Scotland I'll be taking some seroius precautions if plans at Allendale Estate becomes the norm!!

Edited December 14, 2007 by Lord B

[BlueCoyote 0]

just found this on another thread here........a bear attack by all accounts......

 

Next time I'm stalking in Scotland I'll be taking some seroius precautions if plans at Allendale Estate becomes the norm!!

 

Thanks... my efforts to avoid that picture have been foiled thanks to you :sick:

 

i didnt read that thread on purpose lol but i've seen this photo elsewhere, back in early 2000 or 2001... i think it was a hiker.... and then there was Tim Treadwell.. lived with grizzlies in their own territory until the rangers released a nuisance bear that an urban area... and that was the end of him because that bear had no healthy natural fear of people..

 

 

 

i dont remember who said, or how it was said, by my fav. quote is "Nature lovers... let'em spend a few nights out in it and see how much nature loves them!"

i'm a nature lover too but as a result and a precaution... i own bulldogs..

 

speaking of deer.... funniest story i ever heard from my grandad was when he used to drive a bus route out in the country. used to be some girls on the route that he always picked up.. one day they werent there.. which was annoying since they were out of the way to pick up. when they finally did show up on the route again they told him that they were in fact present, but were hiding from a deer... an amorous deer at that!

[micky 3,325]

I would be interested to hear peoples views about the reintroduction of species such as Elk, Bear, Lynx, Wolves etc to our country.

 

For the past 5 years or so Paul Lister has been looking into the idea ( I believe he is a big shooting man).

 

He owns the Allendale Estate in the Highlands, small 25,000 acre estate Where he has recently started his plan to have a self sustaining predotor population by last week introducing European Elk; he will also introduce the above animals; with the goal of naturally controling his deer population using "natural" predetor control.

 

This is a huge estate, not an enclosed safari park; although under the law as it stands this is ilegal and the area has to be fenced off ; however Scotish legislation and the likes of CROW also makes it a legal requirement for the land to be "open"........

 

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this. What effects will this kind of "management" have on the ecosystem, the wildlife etc??

 

Should the long long long since gone species be back here running wild? We can't agree on wild boar let alone bears, wolves and lynx!

 

For more info Google - Paul Lister, or Allendale Estate.

I would like to see virgins reintroduced to Leicestershire

[Guest Lord B]

i dont remember who said, or how it was said, by my fav. quote is "Nature lovers... let'em spend a few nights out in it and see how much nature loves them!"

i'm a nature lover too but as a result and a precaution... i own bulldogs..

 

Thats what gets me about this urbanized majority over here; they visit the countryside once a year to go hiking or mountaing biking wearing dayglo and have the ordacity to tell us; no not just tell us, but male laws governing us on how to run our land, and they are not based on any experiance......

 

If they spent time experiancing the area and learning it would be a diferant story.

 

I think it was Sir Max Hastings who said that once can only truly understand and feel a part of the countryside after you have spent a night out alone and don't get scared......

 

Respect and understand.

 

They won't even let me in the shoot cabin!!! Stupid laws.

[Guest Lord B]

TO LET

 

BEAR STALKING ON INNOVATIVE SCOTISH ESTATE

 

Contact the Estate Office

Allendale Estate

The Highlands

Scotland

Edited December 14, 2007 by Lord B

[BlueCoyote 0]

TO LET

 

BEAR STALKING ON INNOVATIVE SCOTISH ESTATE

 

Contact the Estate Office

Allendale Estate

The Highlands

Scotland

 

 

stalking my ass, would rather use a long range high powered rifle... i wouldnt want to get within five miles of that ugly son of a gun...

just what kind of bears are they releasing in Scotland!? i've been spoiled with our little bitty black bears here, not much bigger or heavier than a great dane... though recently we have been seeing some mammoths around here, but nothing compared to that sucker!!

 

 

jeez... elk... bears.. wolves.. is this guy anti-social or something? is he trying to come up with some sort of population control? or has he been trespassed too often? lol

[Guest Lord B]

[quote name='BlueCoyote'

 

 

jeez... elk... bears.. wolves.. is this guy anti-social or something? is he trying to come up with some sort of population control? or has he been trespassed too often? lol

 

Now there is an idea to stop trespassing!! I was thinking of shooting them, but scaring them off with a bear, thats the answer..........and let the odd one get eaten so the rumour spreads!!

 

I need to get on ebay and buy me a bear! failing that a stuffed one from the taxidermist will have to do!!

[BlueCoyote 0]

Now there is an idea to stop trespassing!! I was thinking of shooting them, but scaring them off with a bear, thats the answer..........and let the odd one get eaten so the rumour spreads!!

 

I need to get on ebay and buy me a bear! failing that a stuffed one from the taxidermist will have to do!!

 

 

no no no thats all wrong.... buy a black panther.. or a mountain lion.. they used to sell pretty cheap in texas... and set it loose. imagine the publicity of the infamous big cat!!!

 

anyway lol i found this on the subject http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/gray_wolf_europe_call_wild.htm

 

 

dont get me wrong, i think its a great idea - for the animals and environment.. but i'm afraid the people arent gonna like it.... then again, if it boosts the local economy they might go for it.

[Guest Lord B]

Now there is an idea to stop trespassing!! I was thinking of shooting them, but scaring them off with a bear, thats the answer..........and let the odd one get eaten so the rumour spreads!!

 

I need to get on ebay and buy me a bear! failing that a stuffed one from the taxidermist will have to do!!

 

 

no no no thats all wrong.... buy a black panther.. or a mountain lion.. they used to sell pretty cheap in texas... and set it loose. imagine the publicity of the infamous big cat!!!

 

anyway lol i found this on the subject http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/gray_wolf_europe_call_wild.htm

 

 

dont get me wrong, i think its a great idea - for the animals and environment.. but i'm afraid the people arent gonna like it.... then again, if it boosts the local economy they might go for it.

Very interesting link. I was actuallu up in Inverness in November, didn't realise how much my life was in danger!!

 

I'd love to get up there to have a proper look and learn what they are doing.

 

As for a black panther or mountain lion, think I'd get an import lisence for one??? I'll be in Austin next summer I'll keep a look out in the sales!

 

Like I said, I'm on the fence on this one. It does smack of Jurassic Park, and we know what happened there?! Has the landscape evolved to far to go back to this? People in this country are so apathetic and soft about killing foxes and "poor 'iccle gray squirrels" , how would they even begin to comprehend mamals like these wondering about??

[BlueCoyote 0]

i also found this just now http://sandyyates.blogspot.com/2007/10/is-...to-britain.html

 

i'm sorry but .... if you read down to where it talks about wolf attacks and the man in canada that didnt return to his camp... that is hardly even remotely CLOSE to evidence of a wolf attack.... so they found what was left... did they say what killed him? no? why not? they couldnt because he was eaten? lets think for a moment.. Canada.. its Cold there... even in summer, nights are quite nippy!! he probably got too cold, died of hypothermia and was scavenged by all kinds of little critters!! OR he was mauled by a bear... which is more likely anyway.. and seeing as how a pack of wolves will have no trouble chasing a bear away from a kill it seems that is the most logical course of events.

 

Wolves being gone so long and the people there are STILL afraid of being eaten by them!?

Again about live stock.... in Montana, Wyoming, and even Georgia people use the large guard dog breeds to protect their flocks from predators, and it works quite well. a friend of mine has a six month old Great Pyrenees that guards her goats, chickens, and horses from coyotes, wild hogs, and people. he's just a baby all by himself, but i dare you to walk into his pasture lol if the sheep farmers would like to get serious about protecting their flocks AND increase the income from tourists then they should look into these large guard dogs. like i said before.... they use them in Africa against cheetahs and other predators.. and they still use them in parts of Europe in their native country against.. wolves! though i think feral dogs are more of a threat than wolves.. but i could be wrong about that. i dont live there after all!

Anyone see that discovery special about the man in Scotland that lived with the pack of wolves to study how they live? he had a clever idea to play recorded wolf howls to scare off nuisance wolves that were worrying a farmer and his sheep. seems it worked too!

 

all that aside.... i doubt it will escalate to plague proportions.... in order for this to work he will have to do it slowly... i still think releasing the beavers first, then the lynx THEN the elk would have been wiser.. but oh well... he did the elk first.. maybe the beaver will be next.. it makes the most sense considering the three closely linked in the circle of life.

 

now i'm really interested to see how this pans out

 

 

as for being in Texas... some years ago a friend of mine travelling with her family from Colorado back to Florida.. while passing through Texas they met a woman selling mountain lion cubs - defanged and declawed - so my friend's dad bought one just for the simple fact that he could... but he was a lot like this guy Lister. the man owned 200 acres and never had to visit the grocery store. every piece of meat on his table was killed by himself on his land.. i always wondered what he did for a living to be able to afford to play Tarzan almost every day!!

[Guest Lord B]

i also found this just now http://sandyyates.blogspot.com/2007/10/is-...to-britain.html

 

i'm sorry but .... if you read down to where it talks about wolf attacks and the man in canada that didnt return to his camp... that is hardly even remotely CLOSE to evidence of a wolf attack.... so they found what was left... did they say what killed him? no? why not? they couldnt because he was eaten? lets think for a moment.. Canada.. its Cold there... even in summer, nights are quite nippy!! he probably got too cold, died of hypothermia and was scavenged by all kinds of little critters!! OR he was mauled by a bear... which is more likely anyway.. and seeing as how a pack of wolves will have no trouble chasing a bear away from a kill it seems that is the most logical course of events.

 

Wolves being gone so long and the people there are STILL afraid of being eaten by them!?

Again about live stock.... in Montana, Wyoming, and even Georgia people use the large guard dog breeds to protect their flocks from predators, and it works quite well. a friend of mine has a six month old Great Pyrenees that guards her goats, chickens, and horses from coyotes, wild hogs, and people. he's just a baby all by himself, but i dare you to walk into his pasture lol if the sheep farmers would like to get serious about protecting their flocks AND increase the income from tourists then they should look into these large guard dogs. like i said before.... they use them in Africa against cheetahs and other predators.. and they still use them in parts of Europe in their native country against.. wolves! though i think feral dogs are more of a threat than wolves.. but i could be wrong about that. i dont live there after all!

Anyone see that discovery special about the man in Scotland that lived with the pack of wolves to study how they live? he had a clever idea to play recorded wolf howls to scare off nuisance wolves that were worrying a farmer and his sheep. seems it worked too!

 

all that aside.... i doubt it will escalate to plague proportions.... in order for this to work he will have to do it slowly... i still think releasing the beavers first, then the lynx THEN the elk would have been wiser.. but oh well... he did the elk first.. maybe the beaver will be next.. it makes the most sense considering the three closely linked in the circle of life.

 

now i'm really interested to see how this pans out

 

 

as for being in Texas... some years ago a friend of mine travelling with her family from Colorado back to Florida.. while passing through Texas they met a woman selling mountain lion cubs - defanged and declawed - so my friend's dad bought one just for the simple fact that he could... but he was a lot like this guy Lister. the man owned 200 acres and never had to visit the grocery store. every piece of meat on his table was killed by himself on his land.. i always wondered what he did for a living to be able to afford to play Tarzan almost every day!!

 

Thats it. I'm quiting running a shoot anf farming. I've 3,500 acres, I'll fence it off expensive! and get me some de fanged and de clawed mountain lions when I'm in Austin (I'll smuggle them back in my hand luggage!)

 

It would be interesting if Lister had web site or even a press office, be really interesting to keep on top of this

 

We have quite a few problems with so called big cats, mostly down to either ferral dogs or cats, not pure panthers etc. There were a number privately owned released I think in the 60's when laws changed, but the chances are these are long gone. But there may be some hybrid cross of these with the ferral cat population, who knows?

 

From my own experience on two occasions.....dogs, pack of them. When they are hunting wild in a pack, their pet instincts soon change back to those of wild animals. Released pigs are the same. They revert to "natural order" very very quickly

[BlueCoyote 0]

yes i'm more afraid of a feral dog than a coyote or a wolf... and you probably already know how i feel about pigs

 

the other thing i wonder about, since you mentioned feral cats.. isnt there a Scottish Wild Cat or something? looks like a fluffy striped house cat, right? i wonder how they would feel about having a lynx and a wolf living next door lol

 

and of course you could smuggle it back through your luggage!! even with security as tight as they claim it to be, you could probably smuggle almost anything in or out of the country. they arent looking for warm fuzzies anyway, they're focusing on tubes of tooth paste, ink pens and alarm clocks

[Guest Lord B]

yes i'm more afraid of a feral dog than a coyote or a wolf... and you probably already know how i feel about pigs

 

the other thing i wonder about, since you mentioned feral cats.. isnt there a Scottish Wild Cat or something? looks like a fluffy striped house cat, right? i wonder how they would feel about having a lynx and a wolf living next door lol

 

and of course you could smuggle it back through your luggage!! even with security as tight as they claim it to be, you could probably smuggle almost anything in or out of the country. they arent looking for warm fuzzies anyway, they're focusing on tubes of tooth paste, ink pens and alarm clocks

 

I think the scottich cats died out sometime last century, not sure when but not all that long ago. There is a book I read that suggests maybe they didn't and todays "big cats" are a hybrid of these, who knows?

 

Security is a joke, I got stopped in jfk this year with an apple in my hand luggage, this 7ft tall black guy said I wasn't taking it an further.....so I ate it. The look on his face.....

 

These big cats are a bit of a joke around here, every "expert" has a theory, but the real expert keep quiet, but when they talk its a lot of sence, hybrids, dogs etc. Not one of Mick Jaggers panthers like the populus would have you believe!

 

As for pigs, we are just waiting a giovernment paper about what to do with the groww=ing population. There are a hand full of farms that farm them for meat, and the "antis" keep releasing them to the wild because farming them is cruel. The irony is they are more likely to be hunted once they are released!!!

 

I shot one in Poland earlier in the year, he's my Christmas dinner!