They Don't Half Grow Fast!

[king 11,671]

I think a pup bullied will have a different outlook on life from the start and may become withdrawn .A whole litter boisterous is another thing but a stronger pup in a litter will always better any smaller ,that's nature .If there's space I like to seperate the litter in two at least at around 4 to 5 week mark and let bitch into both if they still need her .Have seperated as young as 3 weeks because of bullying and kept one on his own .Everyone will have different views on this but that's mine .

That's very interesting FD I've never heard or thought of that before.

[foxdropper 17,092]

That makes sense FD, I'm sure it would have a psychological effect on pups if left over a long period of time.

Do you think though, pups/dogs can be brought back to a reasonable level if worked on one to one? Or would it have long lasting effects if bullying had continued for a longer period?

Atb

When the accepted time of 7 to 8 weeks has arrived and pups are chosen from litters kept together ,the first pups forward are generally those having beat their sibblings into submition with the beaten staying back having learnt the hard way .These beaten pups are often last to be picked by new owners .The outcome I prefer is to see evenly matched pups all coming forward and given the chance they deserve without a poor start .In unseperated litters ,as pups go to new owners ,dynamics change and lesser ranked individuals rise to the fore but the beaten stays beaten .I noticed this years ago and now will not let it happen .Can't answer your question mate as I'd like to think it doesn't happen here .

[Chicken_man 1,651]

That is a good answer and I like your way of thinking.

Atb

[king 11,671]

 

That makes sense FD, I'm sure it would have a psychological effect on pups if left over a long period of time.

Do you think though, pups/dogs can be brought back to a reasonable level if worked on one to one? Or would it have long lasting effects if bullying had continued for a longer period?

Atb

When the accepted time of 7 to 8 weeks has arrived and pups are chosen from litters kept together ,the first pups forward are generally those having beat their sibblings into submition with the beaten staying back having learnt the hard way .These beaten pups are often last to be picked by new owners .The outcome I prefer is to see evenly matched pups all coming forward and given the chance they deserve without a poor start .In unseperated litters ,as pups go to new owners ,dynamics change and lesser ranked individuals rise to the fore but the beaten stays beaten .I noticed this years ago and now will not let it happen .Can't answer your question mate as I'd like to think it doesn't happen here .

Would you say its a similar situation in say a litter of African wild dogs.

In that the whole dynamics of a pack are governed by the situation you said above.and as an example the biggest bully in the litter will have more chance of being the alpha of the pack.

[taz2010 1,297]

find a bit of bullying in pups helps the weak ones come on keep all mine together and let them sort themselves out find it toughens the little ones up but everyone to there own methods seen many a runt that was bullied become the best dog in litter seen many a bully become best dog in litter dont think it matters that much and im one that believes dogs bred right its down to the owner to bring on right and 90% of the time its owner that fxxks pups not the dog

[foxdropper 17,092]

I agree with whatever works ,that is only my way and food for thought as they say .I would also agree its owners that mess up good breeding .I disagree though , that runts ever do anything worthwhile though but would depend on whats expected from it i guess.I like to produce evenly sized ,tempered bitches and dogs and i know vanity kicks in when and if a runt appears causing its demise .In the right hands ,shy pups do go on to become decent workers but why create that shyness if it can be avoided.

King .......You mention the wild and you are right about dominance carried through to adulthood .Anybody who has kept back more than one pup kennelled together will know all about that and can end badly plus the trainability level drops considerably even if taken out on a one to one .Sibling rivalry is a force to be reckoned with and can knock an otherwise bright pup down unless seperated for good .Each to their own and all that .

[king 11,671]

I agree with whatever works ,that is only my way and food for thought as they say .I would also agree its owners that mess up good breeding .I disagree though , that runts ever do anything worthwhile though but would depend on whats expected from it i guess.I like to produce evenly sized ,tempered bitches and dogs and i know vanity kicks in when and if a runt appears causing its demise .In the right hands ,shy pups do go on to become decent workers but why create that shyness if it can be avoided.

King .......You mention the wild and you are right about dominance carried through to adulthood .Anybody who has kept back more than one pup kennelled together will know all about that and can end badly plus the trainability level drops considerably even if taken out on a one to one .Sibling rivalry is a force to be reckoned with and can knock an otherwise bright pup down unless seperated for good .Each to their own and all that .

Would you say that from the same litter.

The bullys would be more inclined to be hard and prefer to mix it a bit.

And the bullied would be more of a baying type.

[foxdropper 17,092]

 

I agree with whatever works ,that is only my way and food for thought as they say .I would also agree its owners that mess up good breeding .I disagree though , that runts ever do anything worthwhile though but would depend on whats expected from it i guess.I like to produce evenly sized ,tempered bitches and dogs and i know vanity kicks in when and if a runt appears causing its demise .In the right hands ,shy pups do go on to become decent workers but why create that shyness if it can be avoided.

King .......You mention the wild and you are right about dominance carried through to adulthood .Anybody who has kept back more than one pup kennelled together will know all about that and can end badly plus the trainability level drops considerably even if taken out on a one to one .Sibling rivalry is a force to be reckoned with and can knock an otherwise bright pup down unless seperated for good .Each to their own and all that .

Would you say that from the same litter.

The bullys would be more inclined to be hard and prefer to mix it a bit.

And the bullied would be more of a baying type.

 

No mate .No corrulation here at all .Depends on what the dog is made of ,its breeding and how its worked .Take away the bully influence though and a pup is much happier ive found .Its just a personal thing i do as i hate bullying in any form and id like to think it impacts on their lives by removing same.My pet hate in pups is the cowering type that pisses itself when scolded or wont come when called and this is what i aim to remove by seperating types when young .The cowering pup may go on to work well in the right hands but anything i can do to avoid this will be done. Its sibling that is confident will be well on its way to work at the time i think it should rather than wondering if and when .There are those that will give pups until 21/2 to work whereas i like all that are going to, to be grafting by 18 months no later and most if not all do just that .Again its a personal thing that weeds out what i dont want and is either right or wrong according to your own experiences .

[king 11,671]

 

 

I agree with whatever works ,that is only my way and food for thought as they say .I would also agree its owners that mess up good breeding .I disagree though , that runts ever do anything worthwhile though but would depend on whats expected from it i guess.I like to produce evenly sized ,tempered bitches and dogs and i know vanity kicks in when and if a runt appears causing its demise .In the right hands ,shy pups do go on to become decent workers but why create that shyness if it can be avoided.

King .......You mention the wild and you are right about dominance carried through to adulthood .Anybody who has kept back more than one pup kennelled together will know all about that and can end badly plus the trainability level drops considerably even if taken out on a one to one .Sibling rivalry is a force to be reckoned with and can knock an otherwise bright pup down unless seperated for good .Each to their own and all that .

 

Would you say that from the same litter.

The bullys would be more inclined to be hard and prefer to mix it a bit.

And the bullied would be more of a baying type.

No mate .No corrulation here at all .Depends on what the dog is made of ,its breeding and how its worked .Take away the bully influence though and a pup is much happier ive found .Its just a personal thing i do as i hate bullying in any form and id like to think it impacts on their lives by removing same.My pet hate in pups is the cowering type that pisses itself when scolded or wont come when called and this is what i aim to remove by seperating types when young .The cowering pup may go on to work well in the right hands but anything i can do to avoid this will be done. Its sibling that is confident will be well on its way to work at the time i think it should rather than wondering if and when .There are those that will give pups until 21/2 to work whereas i like all that are going to, to be grafting by 18 months no later and most if not all do just that .Again its a personal thing that weeds out what i dont want and is either right or wrong according to your own experiences .

Ah sound FD thanks for the reply.

[fox digger 1,086]

Interesting theory fox dropper, something I can't comment on. At 6 weeks there doesn't appear to be any obvious effects of bullying. They all give as good as they get and are very evenly matched. The one that appeared to be a bit of a bully in the first clip is now the most laid back one!!

 

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/slievenamonworkingterrierclub/Mobile%20Uploads/th_trim.30E23BE6-639D-435A-80BB-7D1364CEFB8B_zpshvutugz0.mp4

[fox digger 1,086]

What do ye think are the percentages of the runt makin as good if not better worker than the bigger stronger pups on a litter? The mother of these was the runt but turned out as good if not better than her Litter mates.

[foxdropper 17,092]

Unfortunately mate I've not any experience with that to comment on as like said I've never reared one.

[fox digger 1,086]

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/slievenamonworkingterrierclub/Mobile%20Uploads/trim.30E23BE6-639D-435A-80BB-7D1364CEFB8B_zpshvutugz0.mp4

 

Can you by judging that last clip of them playing at 6weeks say that there is a shy one or signs of one that is being effected by bullying? Just out of curiosity im asking, i dont think i can say there is any difference in there personalitys, they all rough each other up and give and take!