International Conference on aboriginal dogs

[Kye 77]

Bump,..

[Meerihunter 7]

simply fantastic

 

i was wondering

how do there dogs compare with the dogs we have here

as i think the dogs we have nowadays

are soft

are their dogs more hardier

as they the people like hardier life's

 

as in over here the dogs are put on a pedestal

give supplements, diet controlled, exercise regime,

magnetic box's are used ect.ect....

 

where over there a dog is a dog

 

is the purpose of a dog solely to put meat on the table

or is it becomeing more a sport over there

 

very intresting good post this

 

I totally agree regarding dogs here getting soft. At the weekend I paid a visit to a friend who keeps and races greyhounds, looking at the greyhounds feet there is a huge difference in the amount bone and pad compared my Saluki's and even these Saluki's I have now have less substance to there feet than my first Saluki and of those that I saw in Kazakhstan.

 

I have to admit to using a portamag and laser if my dogs injury themselves but the rest is totally natural and non fussing. I am striving to keep Salukis that are as robust as they have to be in the native lands. Any of my show any weakness will simply not be breed from no matter how good they are when hunting, a lame dog stuck at home is no use.

 

 

SUPERB pictures!!

Image 0291 looks like a native type Afghan?

 

Sorry to be so long in getting back to you, it's only taking me a whole year to get back to you, lol.

 

They are all kazakh dogs including this one.

 

Edited November 12, 2008 by Meerihunter

[Meerihunter 7]

 

Here is a Afghan dog in Pakistan (click pic to see original web page)

[Tiff 36]

VERY NICE

[Lily 0]

Sir Terence Clark has a very out of date view on the heritage of these dogs. His ideas have long been proved wrong with DNA testing regarding his theory that Sloughi and Saluki and all those type of dogs are the same. You can read an article on it here

 

http://sloughi.tripod.com/SFAA/MitochondrialDNA.html

 

The Saluki and Sloughi are vastly different to each other genetically speaking. The Afghan is closer to the Sloughi. The Azawakh also.

 

Some great photos on this thread

[Lily 0]

Meant to add, you may also be interested in some native Indian sighthound breeds which can be found here:

 

http://www.dogsindia.com/indian_breeds.htm

 

Largely unknown of even in India although there are people out there now trying to educate people about these ancient breeds, and who are working to preserve them.

[Meerihunter 7]

Sir Terence Clark has a very out of date view on the heritage of these dogs. His ideas have long been proved wrong with DNA testing regarding his theory that Sloughi and Saluki and all those type of dogs are the same. You can read an article on it here

 

http://sloughi.tripod.com/SFAA/MitochondrialDNA.html

 

The Saluki and Sloughi are vastly different to each other genetically speaking. The Afghan is closer to the Sloughi. The Azawakh also.

 

Some great photos on this thread

 

To be fair to Sir Terence Clark, his thoughts and idea's regarding Salukis and Sloughis come directly from the native people who hunt with them. Those that he spoke to make no distinction between them.

 

I'm not sure how seriously to take the findings regarding the relantionship of the various Oriental Sighthounds at this point as their samples were very limited.

This study was also presented to us at the conference using the findings to point to toward origins and birth place of domestic dog, south east Asia

 

Meant to add, you may also be interested in some native Indian sighthound breeds which can be found here:

 

http://www.dogsindia.com/indian_breeds.htm

 

Largely unknown of even in India although there are people out there now trying to educate people about these ancient breeds, and who are working to preserve them.

 

 

A representative of the Indian breeds was to give a presentation at the conference but unfortunately he could not make it, a shame as I was looking forward to hearing more about the the various aboriginal breeds of India.

[pikesta 54]

great topic lads, loads of goods pics.

[adskibullus 0]

i like the sound of those Rajapalayam dogs sounds like they would put food on your plate and protect you what more could you want.

 

"The Rajapalayam is an ancient Indian Molosser, believed by some to be one of the progenitors of the legendary Alaunt and a remote ancestor of a variety of breeds, such as the Dalmatian, the Great Dane and the Alano, among others. Traditionally employed to hunt wild boars, hares and other game found in India, the Rajapalayam Hound was also used as a war dog, sent to attack the British cavalry during the Carnatian conflicts. Much larger and more ferocious in the past, the modern incarnation of the Rajapalayam is being bred for frendlier disposition and smaller size, resembling a lighter Dogo Argentino or as it is sometimes described as, a miniaturized Deutsche Dogge.

 

 

Native to Rajapalayam, Kerela and Tamil Nadu, this rugged hound is still fairly numerous in India, often kept as a watchdog and companion pet, commonly seen competing in local Dog Shows. Calm, trainable and loyal, the Rajapalayam is a reliable family dog, but can be confrontational around strange dogs if not socialized properly. Lean, deep-chested and leggy, this breed is very resilient and reportedly tireless when working. Its skin is tighter on the body, but somewhat loose on the neck and head, with some wrinkling accepted. The short coat is smooth and flat, most valued in uniform white or spotted Harlequin colourings, but quite common in other shades, like fawn, red, silver and black. The nose is either the same colour as the coat or pink in white dogs. Average height is around 20 inches."

 

 

do you belive that our hounds in the past would have been goog guard dogs aswel? ive read about the scottish clans haveing deerhounds that hunted and guarded also the original irish wolf hounds. most of the salukis i have met have been quite protective and didnt like strangers. it would make sense due to mans nomadic past to have dogs which could hunt and protect. i personally couldnt see more of a perfect dog than that. is this why these alaunt types of dog are starting to be bred again to regain some of these instincts?

 

they even have bull x's in pakistan i quite like these aswel

http://www.molosserdogs.com/modules.php?na...nt&tid=3195

[Lily 0]

Sir Terence Clark has a very out of date view on the heritage of these dogs. His ideas have long been proved wrong with DNA testing regarding his theory that Sloughi and Saluki and all those type of dogs are the same. You can read an article on it here

 

http://sloughi.tripod.com/SFAA/MitochondrialDNA.html

 

The Saluki and Sloughi are vastly different to each other genetically speaking. The Afghan is closer to the Sloughi. The Azawakh also.

 

Some great photos on this thread

 

To be fair to Sir Terence Clark, his thoughts and idea's regarding Salukis and Sloughis come directly from the native people who hunt with them. Those that he spoke to make no distinction between them.

 

I'm not sure how seriously to take the findings regarding the relantionship of the various Oriental Sighthounds at this point as their samples were very limited.

This study was also presented to us at the conference using the findings to point to toward origins and birth place of domestic dog, south east Asia

 

 

 

Well this is the argument he always presents regarding 'limited samples'. The genetic studies are ongoing so time will tell on that one. I tend to go with the scientific evidence rather than something based on second hand information from Terence Clark (who as you probably can tell I dont have a huge amount of time for . I also dont think that the Sloughi or Saluki actually look alike when you get to know both breeds. The native people certainly in Morocco who hunt with Sloughis would definately not agree that they are the same breed as the Saluki either (and that's from people I know having a great deal to do with the Moroccan Sloughi owners). And if his claims that these people dont differentiate between the two breeds, you would most certainly be seeing feathered Sloughis because they would be bred together in their COO. Which you dont ever see. I think it's quite ignorant to assume that the people who hunt with these dogs have no interest in the heritage of their ancient breeds.

 

The Sloughi is getting trashed by certain breeders in Europe at the moment. A smooth Saluki that John Burchard brought over from Egypt who he believed was a Sloughi about 30 years ago was used on 3 litters, before a feathered Saluki sister appeared of the same dog. The Swiss Kennel Club banned this dog from being bred from again as a Sloughi. However the dogs that came from those litters were continued to be bred from and 30 years down the line there are some heavily inbred Saluki/Sloughis in France in particular (that are passed off as Sloughis). The difference in these dogs as opposed to Sloughis from their COO gives a very good idea of how different these two breeds are supposed to look.

 

Here are more pictures of Moroccan Sloughis taken from my friend's trip this year. Much heavier than the Saluki - and no feathering

 

http://www.sloughi-world.de/ausgabe16/marrakech.php

[Meerihunter 7]

Sir Terence Clark has a very out of date view on the heritage of these dogs. His ideas have long been proved wrong with DNA testing regarding his theory that Sloughi and Saluki and all those type of dogs are the same. You can read an article on it here

 

http://sloughi.tripod.com/SFAA/MitochondrialDNA.html

 

The Saluki and Sloughi are vastly different to each other genetically speaking. The Afghan is closer to the Sloughi. The Azawakh also.

 

Some great photos on this thread

 

To be fair to Sir Terence Clark, his thoughts and idea's regarding Salukis and Sloughis come directly from the native people who hunt with them. Those that he spoke to make no distinction between them.

 

I'm not sure how seriously to take the findings regarding the relantionship of the various Oriental Sighthounds at this point as their samples were very limited.

This study was also presented to us at the conference using the findings to point to toward origins and birth place of domestic dog, south east Asia

 

 

 

Well this is the argument he always presents regarding 'limited samples'. The genetic studies are ongoing so time will tell on that one. I tend to go with the scientific evidence rather than something based on second hand information from Terence Clark (who as you probably can tell I dont have a huge amount of time for . I also dont think that the Sloughi or Saluki actually look alike when you get to know both breeds. The native people certainly in Morocco who hunt with Sloughis would definately not agree that they are the same breed as the Saluki either (and that's from people I know having a great deal to do with the Moroccan Sloughi owners).

 

I think it would be quite niave for anyone to assume that mixing of Saluki/sloughis hasn't gone on at some level, but at the same time it does not prove a common ancestry either, in which case both theories are believable and are true to some extent

 

And if his claims that these people dont differentiate between the two breeds, you would most certainly be seeing feathered Sloughis because they would be bred together in their COO. Which you dont ever see. I think it's quite ignorant to assume that the people who hunt with these dogs have no interest in the heritage of their ancient breeds.

 

The fact that most southern Salukis are smoothes anyway and that the smooth is dominant would make unlikely for feathered dogs to appear especially through one off matings, they would simply be absorbed into the sloughis population, it would take 2 of the Saluki(feathered)XSloughis offspring to be coupled for the recessive feathered to come through

 

The Sloughi is getting trashed by certain breeders in Europe at the moment. A smooth Saluki that John Burchard brought over from Egypt who he believed was a Sloughi about 30 years ago was used on 3 litters, before a feathered Saluki sister appeared of the same dog. The Swiss Kennel Club banned this dog from being bred from again as a Sloughi. However the dogs that came from those litters were continued to be bred from and 30 years down the line there are some heavily inbred Saluki/Sloughis in France in particular (that are passed off as Sloughis). The difference in these dogs as opposed to Sloughis from their COO gives a very good idea of how different these two breeds are supposed to look.

 

Does the fact that a sloughi might be carrying some saluki blood make the dog any less desirable? They are both hunting dogs pursuing similar quarry in similar environments? I'd be interested to hear what harm you consider it does?

 

3 litters of SloughiXSaluki will do the breed no harm what so ever in my mind, it would probably do them the world of good. The saluki blood will be completely absorbed within a few generations

 

Here are more pictures of Moroccan Sloughis taken from my friend's trip this year. Much heavier than the Saluki - and no feathering

 

http://www.sloughi-world.de/ausgabe16/marrakech.php

 

Some great pics Thanks for the link.

[Tiff 36]

what's the reason for the henna on the legs (other than tradition, it had to start somewhere.)

[Lily 0]

 

 

 

Well this is the argument he always presents regarding 'limited samples'. The genetic studies are ongoing so time will tell on that one. I tend to go with the scientific evidence rather than something based on second hand information from Terence Clark (who as you probably can tell I dont have a huge amount of time for . I also dont think that the Sloughi or Saluki actually look alike when you get to know both breeds. The native people certainly in Morocco who hunt with Sloughis would definately not agree that they are the same breed as the Saluki either (and that's from people I know having a great deal to do with the Moroccan Sloughi owners).

 

I think it would be quite niave for anyone to assume that mixing of Saluki/sloughis hasn't gone on at some level, but at the same time it does not prove a common ancestry either, in which case both theories are believable and are true to some extent

 

In my opinion the theories may have both been believable to me before the genetic studies were conducted. From what I know of the studies being done at the moment there will be further proof of this in the not to distant future - we may pick on this discussion again further down the line But maybe we have to agree to disagree on that point

 

And if his claims that these people dont differentiate between the two breeds, you would most certainly be seeing feathered Sloughis because they would be bred together in their COO. Which you dont ever see. I think it's quite ignorant to assume that the people who hunt with these dogs have no interest in the heritage of their ancient breeds.

 

The fact that most southern Salukis are smoothes anyway and that the smooth is dominant would make unlikely for feathered dogs to appear especially through one off matings, they would simply be absorbed into the sloughis population, it would take 2 of the Saluki(feathered)XSloughis offspring to be coupled for the recessive feathered to come through

 

But you said that these hunting folk dont differentiate between the two breeds. If that was the case why would they bother deliberately putting a smooth to smooth. Why would the feathering matter to them if the breed doesnt matter? Also why do you not get a combination of coat colours? Why do you not get tri-coloured Sloughis, why does the Sloughi not carry any white as the Saluki does? There are various differences in coat colours which you get in one breed and not the other. Not to mention how it would be done given the huge geographical divide between both these breeds Country of Origins.

 

The Sloughi is getting trashed by certain breeders in Europe at the moment. A smooth Saluki that John Burchard brought over from Egypt who he believed was a Sloughi about 30 years ago was used on 3 litters, before a feathered Saluki sister appeared of the same dog. The Swiss Kennel Club banned this dog from being bred from again as a Sloughi. However the dogs that came from those litters were continued to be bred from and 30 years down the line there are some heavily inbred Saluki/Sloughis in France in particular (that are passed off as Sloughis). The difference in these dogs as opposed to Sloughis from their COO gives a very good idea of how different these two breeds are supposed to look.

 

Does the fact that a sloughi might be carrying some saluki blood make the dog any less desirable? They are both hunting dogs pursuing similar quarry in similar environments? I'd be interested to hear what harm you consider it does?

 

I dont have an issue with Sighthounds being crossed for a purpose (ie working Lurchers). I do have a problem with a Saluki line being constantly inbred on with the result being 'so-called' Sloughis for no purpose other than lazy breeding. They are not Sloughis. If you have a 3/4 Saluki 1/4 Greyhound for instance. Do you tell people it is a Saluki? No, you tell people it is a Lurcher (or Longdog if you're going to be pedantic). The cross bred Sloughis in Europe are not used for working anyway. Some of them do participate in Lure Coursing events but most are pets or show dogs, so their ability to work is irrelevant. I am a Sloughi fancier, the Sloughi is a rare breed. I find it really sad that this breed is being wiped out in Europe by irresponsible breeding (although the Germans have put a ban on any of their breeders mixing with this line so there is some hope that idea might catch on). I also have a big problem with inbreeding - and the fact is that this Saluki line is heavily inbred from with certain Sloughi breeders. I cant see that will do these dogs any favours health wise.

 

3 litters of SloughiXSaluki will do the breed no harm what so ever in my mind, it would probably do them the world of good. The saluki blood will be completely absorbed within a few generations

 

If those litters had then only had Sloughis bred to them from then on, instead of consistently inbreeding on that line I would agree with you. But that is not the case. It's the inbreeding I take issue with, inbreeding in general and inbreeding to the wrong breed in particular! If you are interested in reading more about this and the affects it will have it is explained much better in the thread here (Read Sloughiman's posts). He explains it far better than I can

 

http://www.sloughi-world.de/forum/viewtopi...p?f=1&t=137

 

 

 

Here are more pictures of Moroccan Sloughis taken from my friend's trip this year. Much heavier than the Saluki - and no feathering

 

http://www.sloughi-world.de/ausgabe16/marrakech.php

 

Some great pics Thanks for the link.

 

Glad you liked them

 

Edited November 15, 2008 by Lily

[Lily 0]

what's the reason for the henna on the legs (other than tradition, it had to start somewhere.)

 

 

The only reason I've ever heard is 'tradition'. I dont know where it originated from I'm afraid!

[riohog 5,621]

henna is put on the dogs paws pads it is thought to harden the pads also nut oil is used