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Lets get this in perspective I have used chain saws since the age of 13 I was trained by my grandfather whom had 41 years experience as head forester, since a health and safety review this year I have had to take my chainsaw cert, despite using quads for more years than I care to count and covering over 8000miles a year on them now I must take a cert and a brush cutter cert and first aid and renew my counter balance cert and my telehandler cert expires next year and I have to do a manual handling course :icon_eek: I bet thats not the end of it either do I want to do any of them well hell no but there it is.

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Lets get this in perspective I have used chain saws since the age of 13 I was trained by my grandfather whom had 41 years experience as head forester, since a health and safety review this year I have had to take my chainsaw cert, despite using quads for more years than I care to count and covering over 8000miles a year on them now I must take a cert and a brush cutter cert and first aid and renew my counter balance cert and my telehandler cert expires next year and I have to do a manual handling course :icon_eek: I bet thats not the end of it either do I want to do any of them well hell no but there it is.

I know exactly how you feel I am experiencing similar training certification in my line of work but if you dont paper chase your out of a job its all gone daft ,like I said if you dont have the necessary paperwork and rebel against the system it you yourself that suffers. :air_kiss:

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This has went slightly off topic. :laugh:

You can blame that one on your mate Foxdropper having a go at me because I have a paper he hasnt. LOL

 

Does it bother me Hell no LOL Its an powerful emotion envy so I am told .LOL

and thats because I am an al right Jack LOL LOL

Sorry Foxdropper but you crack me up

Best

Stu

Edited by Caprelous

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Lets get this in perspective I have used chain saws since the age of 13 I was trained by my grandfather whom had 41 years experience as head forester, since a health and safety review this year I have had to take my chainsaw cert, despite using quads for more years than I care to count and covering over 8000miles a year on them now I must take a cert and a brush cutter cert and first aid and renew my counter balance cert and my telehandler cert expires next year and I have to do a manual handling course :icon_eek: I bet thats not the end of it either do I want to do any of them well hell no but there it is.

I know exactly how you feel I am experiencing similar training certification in my line of work but if you dont paper chase your out of a job its all gone daft ,like I said if you dont have the necessary paperwork and rebel against the system it you yourself that suffers. :air_kiss:

 

Thats exactly right without those certs I loose my job and probably to a lad just out of sparshalt with a pile of certificates and doesn't know a pheasants head from its arse :laugh:

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Lets get this in perspective I have used chain saws since the age of 13 I was trained by my grandfather whom had 41 years experience as head forester, since a health and safety review this year I have had to take my chainsaw cert, despite using quads for more years than I care to count and covering over 8000miles a year on them now I must take a cert and a brush cutter cert and first aid and renew my counter balance cert and my telehandler cert expires next year and I have to do a manual handling course :icon_eek: I bet thats not the end of it either do I want to do any of them well hell no but there it is.

 

Sad thing is non of the bits of paper will make you do your job any better ...what makes you good at your job Dan is experience , you cant buy that or get a ticket for it , years at the job is what it takes ...glad I'm an old fart & near the end of my stalking life , hope I don't need a ticket to lye in the sun drinking a cold one or I'm up shit creek ... :laugh:

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I really don't get it, I'm certified up the arse in what i do but really, is it any better than anyone better than me of with more experience?

As long asi shoot safely, surely should it matter that much?

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All those certificates do is offset liability it takes the responsibility from my employer and places it firmly at my feet he has a get out clause he will just default to the party line of the employee failed to work within the safe working procedures he was trained to use therefore any accident or injury is the employee's fault.

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Personally I find does a bit more of a challenge - hence don't shoot as many. They seem more shy and not as willing to run towards the buttolo!

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Personally I find does a bit more of a challenge - hence don't shoot as many. They seem more shy and not as willing to run towards the buttolo!

Generally Does will only come to a Buttolo call during late May and June or early July and occasionally August depending on if they had a late drop, if using the kid distress peep at other times they will be alarmed by it and run the opposite way.

So in effect they are pretty much useless during the Doe Cull season other than for observation or carrying out deer counts.

Cheers

Stu

 

P.S

Nice to see a post back on topic

Edited by Caprelous

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I think in all our outside work and lets take Dan above, he has been using a chainsaw for many years, but does he use it safe or has he got away with it, in my trade after leaving hunting, I joined the fire service and started as a firefighter and became an instructor I had to keep going on courses to be able to teach my trade. but what makes me better than someone who has been doing it for years and the biggest question is who assess the assessors, Sussex like me has been doing it for years, this game is different but have we been doing it right, the end result is the biggest goal, do I/we go out? yes, do we go home with deer? yes, do we wound deer and not find them? No, so if you can get a clean paper from that then you have your answer, I also knew people in the fire service who went to college longer, did more courses and took shortcuts and became managers quickly without being on the red trucks and were then coming to big fires in charge of people who had been doing the job 20 yrs.

 

I am the first to admit I don't know it all and have been out with people and seen them do something and thought good idea, you can read articles either on here or in a magazine and do the same. in this game where there is no college someone could say i'm gonna start a course the Phills Deer school, get a few people behind me convince them as i'm a good salesman and i have a mate who works for the DS that my test is the best and off I go.

 

So all these assessors,are they better than me/Rich/Stu/anyone else?, who is to say the way they do it is better than the way I do it, if I don't get close to 3 figures on deer each year I've not had a good season how many deer have assessors shot? how many years have they done? do you have to do certain years, someone said the click of the DS would like these tests in, has Bob started it as his mate is chair of DS. I said in my last post Defra use the DSC as a way to determine qualified shooter for the badger cull and look how that went. Maybe when or if this discussion is raised then we need to put our voice as the experienced unqualified.

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Just a little story here which illustrates what im getting at -Several years ago the local estate was told by Wessex woodland to cull the fallow or the grant system would stop .The estate not wanting to lose a massive tree planting grant agreed and put together a plan to use the services of local stalkers in high seats to cull as many does and prickets as poss in a day.I was lucky enough to get an invite along with many others i knew .22 rifles in all of which 2 had any dsc paperwork but all having served time the proper way .The day went very well with 98 shots fired and 97 deer killed outright chest shot as per brief. The following year the estate decided to put the cull out to tender and a well known book writer on the subject bought the day and sold it on with the requirement that rifles had dsc 1 minumum and insurance.The price per seat was ridiculous but he filled all 20 seats .Myself and one other mate were asked to stay on the ground at either end of the estate to shoot what we could and generally assist where needed through a radio .At the brief ,the same rules applied ,chest shots only ,no running shots,arcs of safe fire from each seat taped out ,trees arnt backstops and the blast on the horn was the finish regardless what the day held for each rifle.It was established that most were members of the deer initiative and off they went to respective seats drawn from a hat. The well known writer of books was seat 11 as i recall ,the hotseat where they congregate when pressured ,fancy that and not too far from my ground position on a slope facing .The day started with a volley of shots as expected as the deer wised up and spread out .Seat 9 was in a field to my left and the shooting was pretty constant from it until my radio crackled and seat 9 asked for assistance in dispatching a deer as they werent allowed to leave the seat. Doned my high vis ,made myself known to him and walked to where he said he had one down but not out .In a patch of rushes there were no less than 5 fallow does all still alive in various states of injury .Two shot in the green ,one through the haunch and two more brisket shot .Another two lay dead bled out from more horrendous shooting .I dispatched all,told the rifle what id found ,was fobbed off with a laugh and then phoned the head keeper on his mobile to explain what id seen .The head radioed the rifle asking him to sleeve his gun ,dismount and await collection to which he got very aggitated and switched the radio off .I departed in full view and phoned in again to be told the day was about to be stopped anyway .The writer whos day it was had shot a doe in the head and blown its jaw off but hadnt owned up despite being the only rifle in the area and accounts from seats nearby as to shot sounds and visuals on the beast .He was asked to sleeve and dismount while the animal was dispatched but refused hence the day was stopped .Back at the gralloching area there were 73 beasts collected for a total shot click of ,wait for it,104 shots fired . Make of it what you will but it was a true eye opener .Still talked about today locally .The following year it was locals again with 94 deer shot for 84 shots .Last year was sold but went without hitch with 67 shot for 71 shots fired .3 foxes shot which were allowed .This year it was all invite and went very well 84 for 84 .

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Just a little story here which illustrates what im getting at -Several years ago the local estate was told by Wessex woodland to cull the fallow or the grant system would stop .The estate not wanting to lose a massive tree planting grant agreed and put together a plan to use the services of local stalkers in high seats to cull as many does and prickets as poss in a day.I was lucky enough to get an invite along with many others i knew .22 rifles in all of which 2 had any dsc paperwork but all having served time the proper way .The day went very well with 98 shots fired and 97 deer killed outright chest shot as per brief. The following year the estate decided to put the cull out to tender and a well known book writer on the subject bought the day and sold it on with the requirement that rifles had dsc 1 minumum and insurance.The price per seat was ridiculous but he filled all 20 seats .Myself and one other mate were asked to stay on the ground at either end of the estate to shoot what we could and generally assist where needed through a radio .At the brief ,the same rules applied ,chest shots only ,no running shots,arcs of safe fire from each seat taped out ,trees arnt backstops and the blast on the horn was the finish regardless what the day held for each rifle.It was established that most were members of the deer initiative and off they went to respective seats drawn from a hat. The well known writer of books was seat 11 as i recall ,the hotseat where they congregate when pressured ,fancy that and not too far from my ground position on a slope facing .The day started with a volley of shots as expected as the deer wised up and spread out .Seat 9 was in a field to my left and the shooting was pretty constant from it until my radio crackled and seat 9 asked for assistance in dispatching a deer as they werent allowed to leave the seat. Doned my high vis ,made myself known to him and walked to where he said he had one down but not out .In a patch of rushes there were no less than 5 fallow does all still alive in various states of injury .Two shot in the green ,one through the haunch and two more brisket shot .Another two lay dead bled out from more horrendous shooting .I dispatched all,told the rifle what id found ,was fobbed off with a laugh and then phoned the head keeper on his mobile to explain what id seen .The head radioed the rifle asking him to sleeve his gun ,dismount and await collection to which he got very aggitated and switched the radio off .I departed in full view and phoned in again to be told the day was about to be stopped anyway .The writer whos day it was had shot a doe in the head and blown its jaw off but hadnt owned up despite being the only rifle in the area and accounts from seats nearby as to shot sounds and visuals on the beast .He was asked to sleeve and dismount while the animal was dispatched but refused hence the day was stopped .Back at the gralloching area there were 73 beasts collected for a total shot click of ,wait for it,104 shots fired . Make of it what you will but it was a true eye opener .Still talked about today locally .The following year it was locals again with 94 deer shot for 84 shots .Last year was sold but went without hitch with 67 shot for 71 shots fired .3 foxes shot which were allowed .This year it was all invite and went very well 84 for 84 .

Where those side by side then LOL

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