Hi-Pro 30% Dog Food

[Poacherspocket 189]

Sandy, does this mean that the ones who are sourcing quality Beef chicken etc to feed their mutts are wasting time, and money

and once its broken down to amino acids it makes no difference from rump steak to chicken feet.

so we might as well just use a quality complete, no sourcing, no cutting up, or freezing, just pour out a bag and get the same results?

not necessarily the whole point of that c5 programme was saying dog foods are packed full of cerials that dogs do not need or want and can struggle to digest or whatever. Which is why you get massive stools etc. In my opinion dog food will do a good job but with more waste out of the dog I suppose and the dogs wont digest it as easily as raw meat.

[sandymere 8,263]

Sandy, does this mean that the ones who are sourcing quality Beef chicken etc to feed their mutts are wasting time, and money

and once its broken down to amino acids it makes no difference from rump steak to chicken feet.

so we might as well just use a quality complete, no sourcing, no cutting up, or freezing, just pour out a bag and get the same results?

No good quality meat will have all the proteins needed as well as the proper amount of minerals etc and plenty of fat which is likely a bigger plus, it just doesn’t need to be steak. The important thing is that it is not full of bacteria etc, quality should be about condition not what part of the animal the meat came from.

Completes just do it for you, as you know I feed a fair amount of game etc to my dogs but use a complete to bulk out the feed especially in the summer. Plus it supplies carbs, fibre etc, again these can be supplied with stuff like oats and veg if you don't want to use a complete.

Edited February 7, 2014 by sandymere

[oddser 79]

It allows them to use what is available without changing the packaging all the time

Remember its about having the right balance of proteins not where they came from, once broken down to amino acids it doesn’t make any difference if they are from rump steak or chicken feet any n more than if you demolish a mansion and a council house you end up with bricks lol.

30% is pretty high protein but it has more fat than many which is good.

the biggest load of bo......lks I have read for ages they add fat to up the protein nothing else you need the beef to keep red blood cells up as they carry oxegen more oxegen better the dogs performance

[sandymere 8,263]

 

It allows them to use what is available without changing the packaging all the time

Remember its about having the right balance of proteins not where they came from, once broken down to amino acids it doesn’t make any difference if they are from rump steak or chicken feet any n more than if you demolish a mansion and a council house you end up with bricks lol.

30% is pretty high protein but it has more fat than many which is good.

the biggest load of bo......lks I have read for ages they add fat to up the protein nothing else you need the beef to keep red blood cells up as they carry oxegen more oxegen better the dogs performance

 

LOL sorry but fat and protein are completely different and increasing fat won’t increase protein, unless of course you have rewritten pretty much all excepted science????.

I won’t call your post bollocks as I have better manners, although I might suggest it’s funny. I can only suggest you have a quick look at a biology text book, start with iron/hemoglobin etc you’ll begin to see that its not just beef but many foods meat based and otherwise that contain it and from there begin to see just how funny your post is.

[oddser 79]

it may be funny to you but its true red meat has more iorn than chicken it makes more red blood cells than chicken more red blood cells more oxegen better performance be it dog horse or man fact

[Nik_B 3,791]

I wouldn't trust the human food industry as far as I could throw it and that is supposed to be regulated. The dog food industry isn't regulated at all so just because the absolute values of protein, fat etc sound right there is no way to tell what exactly those fats and proteins are.

 

The skinners my dog was on was costing £25 a month and so far it looks like the raw will cost around £15 so I'm saving money and know exactly what the mutt is eatting. Also the smaller stools are so much easier to pick up and deal with bonus!

[sandymere 8,263]

it may be funny to you but its true red meat has more iorn than chicken it makes more red blood cells than chicken more red blood cells more oxegen better performance be it dog horse or man fact

I was answering the idea that increasing fat increase protein which you must agree is silly, ie if you have a pole that is half protein and half fat you increase the fat from 50% to 60% you must reduce the protein down to 40%. So adding more fat does not add more protein.

So where did I say beef doesn’t have iron???

Of courses beef contains more than say chicken but a dog short on iron would have to be on a very restrictive diet whereas one fed complete or home made with chicken etc would have plenty of iron an if your cups full what’s the point of adding more?? So beef from a steak or a cows arse will contain iron so what are you actually getting at?

[slip lead 862]

Most dry foods are crap, there are some good ones out there (orijen) but its pricey. If like me you feed a raw diet I'd recommend using this

 

 

Feeding CA-37 will ensure your dog is getting the essential nutrients to optimise general health and well being

[sandymere 8,263]

Most dry foods are crap, there are some good ones out there (orijen) but its pricey. If like me you feed a raw diet I'd recommend using this

 

 

Feeding CA-37 will ensure your dog is getting the essential nutrients to optimise general health and well being

Pretty much all completes already have added vitamins and if you are feeding a homemade diet it should meet all the needs or it just isn't a very good diet. So if the diet is adequate why would you want to add more vitamins etc when there is growing evidence that they may well do as much harm as good.

 

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/antioxidants-and-exercise-more-harm-than-good/

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8043456.stm

 

and in general

 

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/more-evidence-that-routine-multivitamin-use-should-be-avoided/

 

In truth it is home made diets that are the ones likely to have micro nutrient imbalances. A recent study of 200 diets found only 5 had adequate nutrient levels

( Stockman, J. Fascetti, AJ. Kass, PH. Larsen,JA. Evaluation of recipes of home-prepared maintenance diets for dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association. 2013;242(11): 1500-1505.)

Edited February 7, 2014 by sandymere

[slip lead 862]

As i said i feed raw meat not hole carcases so i use CA-37 to make shore there getting all the right nutrients they need to do a proper days work.

 

If you really want to learn some thing about a running dogs nutritional needs you won't go far wrong reading this.

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance John Kohnke SGV Conference 2012.pdf

[oddser 79]

 

it may be funny to you but its true red meat has more iorn than chicken it makes more red blood cells than chicken more red blood cells more oxegen better performance be it dog horse or man fact

I was answering the idea that increasing fat increase protein which you must agree is silly, ie if you have a pole that is half protein and half fat you increase the fat from 50% to 60% you must reduce the protein down to 40%. So adding more fat does not add more protein.

So where did I say beef doesn’t have iron???

Of courses beef contains more than say chicken but a dog short on iron would have to be on a very restrictive diet whereas one fed complete or home made with chicken etc would have plenty of iron an if your cups full what’s the point of adding more?? So beef from a steak or a cows arse will contain iron so what are you actually getting at?

 

ok can you tell me why the bags of dried meat are 50 protein could it be that its mostly fat

[oddser 79]

I know that anyone feeding just bagged meal go get your dog blood tested most will have low red cell count . as for home made food not being as good as bagged that just silly statement

[sandymere 8,263]

 

 

it may be funny to you but its true red meat has more iorn than chicken it makes more red blood cells than chicken more red blood cells more oxegen better performance be it dog horse or man fact

 

 

 

 

 

I was answering the idea that increasing fat increase protein which you must agree is silly, ie if you have a pole that is half protein and half fat you increase the fat from 50% to 60% you must reduce the protein down to 40%. So adding more fat does not add more protein.

So where did I say beef doesn’t have iron???

Of courses beef contains more than say chicken but a dog short on iron would have to be on a very restrictive diet whereas one fed complete or home made with chicken etc would have plenty of iron an if your cups full what’s the point of adding more?? So beef from a steak or a cows arse will contain iron so what are you actually getting at?

 

ok can you tell me why the bags of dried meat are 50 protein could it be that its mostly fat

 

Meat isn'y just protein its a mixture of fat and protein ie take a look at a pork chop lol.

An example 6 ounces of lean, braised beef contains 49.2 grams of protein, 32.59 grams of fat.Bear in mind the fat has twice the calories ounce for ounce of protein so beef has far more calories from fat than protein which is what the dog needs for energy.

It contains plenty of micro nutrients as well

including

Vit B2 0.291 mg

" B6 0.0481 mg

" B12 3.62 mcg

" E 0.87 mg

" K 3.1 mcg

" D 14 IU

Niacin 6.979 mg

pantothonec acid 0.971 mg

Folate15 mcg

Edited February 11, 2014 by sandymere

[sandymere 8,263]

As i said i feed raw meat not hole carcases so i use CA-37 to make shore there getting all the right nutrients they need to do a proper days work.

 

If you really want to learn some thing about a running dogs nutritional needs you won't go far wrong reading this.

Its an interesting update on his past writings and in the main the new stuff is what I have been saying for a number of years, the last part ie vitamins hasn't been updated and is outdated, based on the older idea that as humans, dogs etc did better when fed a balanced diet containing lots of naturally occurring vitamins and minerals so adding these to a diet would have the same effect. It was a believable theory and one we all subscribed too until the theory was checked. Alas it seems that artificial chemicals in the form of vitamins etc don't act the same as those found in a good diet. High antioxidants vitamins like C and E actually slowed race times and more recently if you read the links I posted earlier it would seem these also slow healing/repair. Science mores on and theories are developed checked and either confirmed or found to be wrong, the vitamin supplementation has been found to be wrong. In all but a very few situations, ie vit D etc, a good diet will supply all that is needed and if the diet does not meet the needs then adding artificial vitamins does not fix the problem.

I would also argue with wanting low bulk stools as low fibre results in low bacteria number which in turns results in lower free fatty acids for lower gut health etc. Small stools are easier for the owner/kennel staff but not necessarily for the dogs.

Regard s

[oddser 79]

 

As i said i feed raw meat not hole carcases so i use CA-37 to make shore there getting all the right nutrients they need to do a proper days work.

 

If you really want to learn some thing about a running dogs nutritional needs you won't go far wrong reading this.

Its an interesting update on his past writings and in the main the new stuff is what I have been saying for a number of years, the last part ie vitamins hasn't been updated and is outdated, based on the older idea that as humans, dogs etc did better when fed a balanced diet containing lots of naturally occurring vitamins and minerals so adding these to a diet would have the same effect. It was a believable theory and one we all subscribed too until the theory was checked. Alas it seems that artificial chemicals in the form of vitamins etc don't act the same as those found in a good diet. High antioxidants vitamins like C and E actually slowed race times and more recently if you read the links I posted earlier it would seem these also slow healing/repair. Science mores on and theories are developed checked and either confirmed or found to be wrong, the vitamin supplementation has been found to be wrong. In all but a very few situations, ie vit D etc, a good diet will supply all that is needed and if the diet does not meet the needs then adding artificial vitamins does not fix the problem.

I would also argue with wanting low bulk stools as low fibre results in low bacteria number which in turns results in lower free fatty acids for lower gut health etc. Small stools are easier for the owner/kennel staff but not necessarily for the dogs.

Regard s

 

calcium is very important electrolyte in muscle and nerve function its also the major component of bone .when calcium is deficient the first thing you see is in the muscles low calcium makes nerve signal transmission fail and makes muscles and nerves more irritable and hyperexcitable which can result in muscle spasms and cramping vitamin e and c are major antioxidants which protect nerve and muscle cells when getting dog fit