Wits End!

[Marc_gwp 3]

Background- got a 8 month old 2/3 gwp x1/3 lab, who is now 11 months old. The first month I got her I just did the basics and really got her to bond with me. Taking her out on a long lead and getting her to come to the recall on the whistle, basically getting her to fit in with my way of life and to fit into the pack.

 

Started giving her more freedom as I was confident in her and there was the few teething problems you get with a pup, seeing her first pheasant flushed, bumping into her first bolting rabbit and seeing her first roe deer which I handled like I have my other dogs and she was coming on fine and showing great potential!

 

Problem-now she's having what I call "moments" where she just takes of for no reason and won't come back, sometimes it's scent and other times I believe she's just doing it for the sake of it! Then it's on the lead or into heel. Then for the next few days she can be good as gold then it happens. I know people will say go back to basics etc but her basics are excellent minus these moments. Obviously she can't be on a long lead the rest of her days as I aim to use her for shooting (next season)

 

Just wondered if anyone has any ideas

[foresterj 1,096]

Hormones bud, stroppy teenager type thing, hopefully a phase just patience.

[stroller 341]

What do you do when she takes off?

[camokev64 36]

Background- got a 8 month old 2/3 gwp x1/3 lab, who is now 11 months old. The first month I got her I just did the basics and really got her to bond with me. Taking her out on a long lead and getting her to come to the recall on the whistle, basically getting her to fit in with my way of life and to fit into the pack.

Started giving her more freedom as I was confident in her and there was the few teething problems you get with a pup, seeing her first pheasant flushed, bumping into her first bolting rabbit and seeing her first roe deer which I handled like I have my other dogs and she was coming on fine and showing great potential!

Problem-now she's having what I call "moments" where she just takes of for no reason and won't come back, sometimes it's scent and other times I believe she's just doing it for the sake of it! Then it's on the lead or into heel. Then for the next few days she can be good as gold then it happens. I know people will say go back to basics etc but her basics are excellent minus these moments. Obviously she can't be on a long lead the rest of her days as I aim to use her for shooting (next season)

 

Just wondered if anyone has any ideas

The one sensible thing that you seem to be doing is not entering the dog till your goals have been reached.The high % of gwp in your dog is probably contributing to the dogs maturity and also with the Labrador mix dependant on its breed lines.

Another thing is to be realistic,in that I mean that the dog is NOT good at the basic's.All working gundog breeds should be able to stop on the whistle and return on recall....

Replicate your own and the dogs weaknesses and guide according.

 

Stick in....

Edited September 14, 2013 by camokev64

[Marc_gwp 3]

Cheers for the advice, I personally never enter a dog until I think it's mature enough to handle the hustle and bustle of a shoot day! Yeh I've a got a gwp bitch so I know all about how head strong they can be, but then again I had her from a pup. I can see extreme potential in her the dog will graft and one day be a valued member of the pack.

 

As to what I think when she runs away I want to f***ing kill her as I can see her running about, stopping to look at me calling her and carrying on as she does! But just tell her when she comes back that I'm as persistent as she is and I'm not going to give up on her like her last owner (soppy I know but I stopped her from getting shot)

 

Ill just keep trying just thought I'd put the feelers out for any advice and maybe someone to correct me!

 

Marc

[camokev64 36]

Cheers for the advice, I personally never enter a dog until I think it's mature enough to handle the hustle and bustle of a shoot day! Yeh I've a got a gwp bitch so I know all about how head strong they can be, but then again I had her from a pup. I can see extreme potential in her the dog will graft and one day be a valued member of the pack.

 

As to what I think when she runs away I want to f*****g kill her as I can see her running about, stopping to look at me calling her and carrying on as she does! But just tell her when she comes back that I'm as persistent as she is and I'm not going to give up on her like her last owner (soppy I know but I stopped her from getting shot)

 

Ill just keep trying just thought I'd put the feelers out for any advice and maybe someone to correct me!

 

Marc

It can get that way...

 

Try this,one part of guiding / training a dog is the conditioning of the mind,recognizing situations in which a dog reacts to commands and physical barriers...always be your worst critic,forever review your decisions..

WITS END..

Once your dog has cleaned itself morning/night..never let the dog rake about....guide the dog to walk to heel,if it wont,your giving it options, so LEAD ON !..till it does....

If the dog ignore`s firstly the stop whistle then the recall, do not chastise the dog upon it`s return...if it happens at 20-400 yards get out there and administer the guidance...Make things simple stop whistle then recall..

One thing you can`t have when picking up is dog leads everywhere,like your going kite flying,i`d rather put the time in with the heel work and sitting at drives..

Pity dogs can`t shoot the owners,because they are the one`s that fail the dog in the majority of cases...but you sound like your up for it dedication in the right direction will get you there.....

 

Stick in...

[ftm 3,357]

good advice from camokev there he knows how a dogs brain works -billy

[stroller 341]

if it will drop to whistle you will have the recall

cracked in no time

[dee mac 579]

maybe someone touched on it there hormones i had a few weeks of it with my gwp dog were by he was a complete menace then i walked him out on the lead give him a free run for 10 or 15 mins to empty run about then when he looked for me as in he wanted to come to me or interact i then put whistle in mouth and dropped him walked out pat on the head cast him off then got into retrieving staying just the basic s and he settled back into his stride tho the big test will soon be upon us were by he be introduced to ground hold plenty of birds and the head scratching and hair pulling could start all over again but its to be expected at the start but hopefully he ll soon settle and listen to what i want him to do as for the experience so far he s been a joy and picked things up very quickly he has a nice calm temperment unless interrupted by a cat never seen a young dog hold so much hatred for a cat from the very first time he got a whiff and glimsp of one he despises them

[Philluk 181]

If you look at the reply I put to the how young should I start issue there is a clue, as in the dog can see you and is happy to carry on, you see some people with a badly trained dog trying to catch it walking at it, don't walk at it walk the opposite way, your dog hears you and carry's on, what you say is not that important its the fact you say something and she is not coming back she knows where you are, so game time.

 

Go into the middle of a big wood and do some training make fuss let off lead call her to you etc then give her freedom walk for 2 - 3 mins in a straight line say north, then turn west and walk for 2 -3 mins watching her not saying anything then turn back to your original line then do a u turn etc, let her follow you not the other way then every 5 mins hide behind a tree, let her find you and come to you make sure no roads nearby and when she finds you make a fuss if keep an eye out but let her go far see what happens after a few of these.

 

sorry for the changes I did the original early in the morning.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Philluk

[Casso 1,256]

Background- got a 8 month old 2/3 gwp x1/3 lab, who is now 11 months old. The first month I got her I just did the basics and really got her to bond with me. Taking her out on a long lead and getting her to come to the recall on the whistle, basically getting her to fit in with my way of life and to fit into the pack.

 

Started giving her more freedom as I was confident in her and there was the few teething problems you get with a pup, seeing her first pheasant flushed, bumping into her first bolting rabbit and seeing her first roe deer which I handled like I have my other dogs and she was coming on fine and showing great potential!

 

Problem-now she's having what I call "moments" where she just takes of for no reason and won't come back, sometimes it's scent and other times I believe she's just doing it for the sake of it! Then it's on the lead or into heel. Then for the next few days she can be good as gold then it happens. I know people will say go back to basics etc but her basics are excellent minus these moments. Obviously she can't be on a long lead the rest of her days as I aim to use her for shooting (next season)

 

Just wondered if anyone has any ideas

[Casso 1,256]

The moments of madness occur when her prey making drive becomes too strong to sustain your contact with her

 

What I mean by that is , she can't associate your commands with her drive to hunt if we take it that her drive is her overwhelming force

 

If we look at other canine/human activities drug detection or protection work the pups are exposed to the prey item (whatever it may be for each handler ball or tug item )relatively young and all the training is done with that item already formatted in the dogs head as prey , so all instruction is given based on the dog attaining the item , that means the dog understands he has to listen to instruction to get to the prey item

 

This is hugely successful because the handler is right there in the middle of the loop it's in the dogs interest to obey commands

 

Whereas if we look at a lot of gun dog trainers training young dogs the commands stand on their own with no path leading to prey making , which makes life difficult at times because its pulling against the pups natural drive and mother natures programming , and that's what happening in your case the pup is too inexperienced yet to format you in the loop , she doesn't see you as access to drive yet but she will , she is in good hands I believe

 

Another example of this is recently I came across a bloke who had treat trained a dog a high drive dog , dog would do all these actions for treats in the back garden , the first day the dog was taken out he carried on as if the owner wasn't there, because fundamentally he hasn't addressed the core issue,

which basically states that a treat to a dog is worth say 500 feel good points , fine in the garden where there is nothing else equalling the value available

 

but take the dog out somewhere where the value of prey is 5000 points to a driven dog and the training quickly unravels because the dog does the maths and the lure of the prey far out weights the value of the treat item ,

 

Your 100% right not to confront her over it because that will increase her actions, you would become the path of highest resistance and a dog will always chose the path of least resistance (the prey)

 

All the dog wants to be is a predator if we show the dog that listening to our commands (negative) can lead to prey making (positive) the dog will happily fall into line

You sound like your on the right track it will take a little time but its all a learning curve

Best of luck