non-indeginous species

[macberran 2]

[IMG]http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd217/macberran/sheep025.jpg[/img] I found this one 100 yds from the house. 10 am no flies and it was on its feet with the others @ 9.30 pm.

[jasper65 6]

Shit me mate the poor fecker must have gone through hell and back!! any ideas what it was that had a go at it ?

 

Cheers

 

Jasper

[J Darcy 5,871]

Pics suggest big cat perhaps.....suffolcated around mouth.....bones chewed to splinters......

[macberran 2]

Hello too all, I inspected this and the other with a retired policeman, who's had a shot @ most things in his time. I am trying too stay objective about it all. Here are some more background points.

 

 

No roads within 2 miles off this field and that is a C class.

Having dog experience there way is not as clinical, there is normally massive tissue trauma,rips, tears and the likes, the ex-policeman farmer who has beenin the area 60 odd years says its nothing like any off the dog attacks he's seen , on duty and too his own flock.

Dogs never bone a corpse they have the soft easy bits then go, if you hadn't noticed its whole hip socket/joint has been gnawn away at apparent leisure.

Similar attack 4miles away, 2 sheep but that got in the press.

This animal devoured neatly from over the carcass, no tissue lying about and the flies hadn't "struck" yet. Even the crows that get the eyes and soft tissue hadn't been on yet.

Ahundred yards from the farm house, a dog chases, make a bit of noise and our dogs which live out are on like billy-o.

 

I am also aware of it can appear a bit unbelievable but these are just pictures taken off a dead sheep found in a quiet rural area with heavy surrounding woodland. I don't know what, but myself and other farmers and people involved with shooting are pretty sure it was not a dog. This ewe is nearly 4ft long weighs around 7 stone and is the size off a big lab, theres a flock and when you up em they make a noise. Ther was a nother corpse but photos are a bit ropey though there was some faecal matter found nearby.

I feel I may have opened up a tin of worms, but it did happen......... as simple as that.

[IanB 0]

Think I'd be baiting up a hedgeline or whatever suits the area and putting some snares out on some big mofo stakes Or getting the lamp/nightvision out around the area everynight...

[Yokel Matt 918]

...If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire the....

 

 

Ditch Shitter

 

Just the ticket for old painless there fella... big cats no less. Could almost think of it as a safari although after seeing your feet you'd better stay away from the khaki shorts.

 

Good luck finding (and sorting) whatever did that guys, always been sceptical about the big cat sitings but sometimes its hard to put it down to anything else.

Edited August 29, 2007 by LocalYokel

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

Ok. I'm getting confused now. I wish ye could have kept the shots together, Macb. I mean; Are we talking about one ewe or two seperate ones here? I can't even make that much out.

 

Now, as JD correctly points out, If THIS ewe has been killed by the mouth to mouth method? Yeppers, that is classic cat. But there are other symptoms associated. Google for the 'Culpar Roe Deer'. (I'm relatively certain it was 'Culpar'? Fulpar? Cupar? Something [bANNED TEXT](l)par anyway. Most explicit doccumentation of a cat on deer kill we have).

 

Next point ~ and I really do wish more people were aware of this simple but perfectly vital issue: Did / can ye skin the bugger??? Cat doesn't just stand there, biting its nose. It'll sink its claws in around the head / neck area too. The claws will puntcure skin and flesh and be visible only from the wet side of that skin. Get it off and have a thorough look.

 

Check around the flanks / hind quarters too. Cat attacks from the rear and will, again, use those claws to grab it's quarry and knock it down so it can get the fatal bite in. As ye say yeself; Dog's rip. Cats will puncture and slice like Stanley knives. Due to the immense power of those forelimbs, expect visible contusion of the inner skin around the sight of the claw entry wounds.

 

Anyone who doesn't think an average Dog is perfectly capable of reducing fresh bone to dust in record time hasn't seen my lot in action at feeding time. And guess what I feed them?

 

Cat's have other, far more distinctive, methods off feeding off a large prey. I see no evidence of such in any of these shots.

 

A Bull 'n Terrier would hold the nose in just that fashion - I've personally seen it happen. Only he'll brace himself and keep the hold. He can't sink claws in like a cat. Find canine teeth woulds beneath that skin and measure them. That can be checked out against the known perameters of given species of cat.

 

The shit ye found could be a bonus. I do take it ye thought to smell it? It'll have squeezed the anal sacks in passing and should hold a trace of cat - if a cat did it. Situation it was found in, obviously, also holds clues. I don't need to teach ye how to blow a birds egg, but ye haven't said. And it's no good sending it anywhere for forensic examination. The govt. will simply lie to ye.

 

As I said earlier and Ian's saying now; Ring fence those sheep, if humanly possible, with snares. See if ye catch a Dog or two.

 

Following Local's little piss take there; Little would ye know, LY ..... I happen to posess the very Aldrich Foot Snare's formerly owned by the man who the govt. licensed that contraption for. He was a proven passed master of using them on live quarry and a cat expert to boot. So, when it kicked off, the men in black would call his number and he'd slip out and sort it.

 

My friend has now, most regrettably, passed on. And his personal Foot Snares have been bequeathed to me. So; All ribbing aside? I'd likely be just the man

 

Sadly; I'm in Eire. Hours and miles away from Dublin airport. Comfortably skint and with quite enough to be getting on with, without jet setting it about in pursuit of as yet unproven cats

[Guest MOLLY]

A Bull 'n Terrier would hold the nose in just that fashion - I've personally seen it happen. Only he'll brace himself and keep the hold.

One of my terriers has actually done the very same Ditchy

MOLL.

[macberran 2]

D.S thanks for thebreakdown, these photos are of one. The other photos of the next kill 3 days later are poor though I will stick some up. Check my other topic for the circumstances. There was a turd catty-badgery-musty smell I'll stick that up as well(the pic I mean). This all went down in May and the time was not good and besides I wouldn't have known what too check (though the turd I did) with a skinning. Would a cat remove the head and carry it off, its around here somewhere with punctures through the cranium. Brain was gone on this one along with ribs, heart, lungs ,liver etc.......watch for No2.

[Magpie 102]

Have you tried contacting Danny Bamping of the British big cat society? You can contact him by phone on 07831658492 or by email at danny@bigcats.tv.

If it is a big cat attack he's the man for you.

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

D.S Would a cat remove the head and carry it off, its around here somewhere with punctures through the cranium. Brain was gone on this one along with ribs, heart, lungs ,liver etc.......watch for No2.

 

 

Without replying there, I suggest ye see what I've just said on ye other thread, mate. And this just bolsters it.

 

So; Are ye now saying ye saw the head and recorded " Punctures through the cranium "? Or are ye just surmising it must be around somewhere? I'm supposing that, as ye now say the brain was gone? Quite likely imaterial now anyway, unless ye present that skull and we can all see a Stanley tape clearly measuring the access wound though which the brain was removed and the same for the 'puncture wounds'

 

Chosen menu from the kill sits just as easily with Dog as cat, mate. Robert Bucknell, author of " Foxing with Lamp and Rifle " suggests cats Do take heads. I like the guys book and style. But I'm also, as yet, wide open on his interpretations of kills. Frankly, having studied all this stuff in the company of just about everyone from 'Danny the Kid' to some of the best cat takers in the world, I'm as yet to even hear of this head taking phenomonon else where.

 

May I be permitted to close, for now at least, by stating I Do Not consider myself in any way, shape or form Any kind of 'Expert' in these matters. I have no wish to dominate or hyjack the discussion. I'm simply another one of us with views and opinions on these matters. But I Have spent some quality years sifting, quite objectively, through the masses of material presented by true experts and rank idiots alike. Thus nothing now surprises me and I'm for ever being taught just how ignorant I yet am.

 

That said; I've seen what I and the Real experts alike consider perfectly unassailable evidence of - in that instance - Cougar activity within uk. I've also been personally convinced, beyond possible doubt - of the presence of smaller 'Large, Alien Cats' in uk.

 

In short; I don't need convincing the buggers are out there. They are - or have been. I'm just a B*stard to convince that any new incident is indeed cat related. I don't 'want to believe', see? Because I already do. I just need to feel 100% happy, in my own mind that any given incident is indeed genuinely cat. 'Benefit of the doubt' simply doesn't enter into it with me.

 

Always a cracking topic though!

[macberran 2]

DS,I'll close as well, I have no knowledge at all of any B.Cs and my ham handedness in thread management understanably annoying. The wealth of information you brought too the thread was fascinating I'll ken what too check if theres a next time. The skull was found

by my 10yr old after I had topped the field, some 20ft from the remains 2 days later the brain could have gone too any animal, there was a puncture however too the cranium between the eyes which was 6-7mm round. As I say could have been anything. This was back in May and witnessed by my wife myself and 2 gentlemen I go shooting with ,along with my son.it is now in one off the barns and when I put my hands on it I'll show you. All the very best, hope you enjoyed the pics regardless.......intresting topic.