Irish Terrier/fox Terrier Etc

[forest of dean redneck 11,183]

Years ago i bought a Kelly kettle off a fella in Dorset,and he had a Irish,lovely looker,he said he paid good money and how uncommon they were.

Looks like it could be a handy all rounder for a smallholder /forager person.

[Mossdog 27]

Irish Terriers change hands for what can only be described as 'silly money' these days! There are a couple of guys who claim they are breeding 'working' Irish Terriers, but personally, I wouldn't pay close to £1,000 for a dog that is bred from just the same lines as the show dogs and there are no 'working' lines left. Having said that, the show lines can and have been trained to the gun, as search and rescue dogs, deer-tracking dogs and bushing dogs, so you just have to make your choice and do your research.

 

The good points are that a good Irish is intelligent, trainable, can be very soft-mouthed when retrieving and is fast and athletic. They were never drawing dogs. It's not really helpful to think of them as 'terriers' if your definition is a dog that goes to ground.

 

My last one was trained to work with the gun. His hunting style was very thorough and he would charge through anything once he was on a scent....He would stop on a whistle, go right or left or 'back'. I also need to point out that I achieved this when I was single, in my 20s and had nothing else to do

 

Bad points: I really think you have to want an Irish Terrier first and a working dog second, because they have their drawbacks. Mine never started a fight...but woe betide any dog who even 'looked at him funny'. He was fine most of the time, but I really had to handle him firmly and he knew I had the last word. The bit that is hard to put into words is that he absolutely needed a firm hand and training him (compared to the springer I now have) took a lot of patience and thinking 'outside the box'. You don't get away with sloppy handling with an Irish! If you are the sort of handler who really sets out to 'show him who is boss' and constantly bellow commands and use physical punnishment and never really praise your dog, you will end up with either a dog that switches off completely and ignores you, or one that won't hesitate to bite back. Likewise, if you are too soft and try the 'never say no' approach (the sort of dog training equivalent to the Trendy Parents in Viz circa 1990 ) you end up with a dog that runs rings around you. You need to be very consitent, very firm, but also very fair and make sure your praise is delivered with the same enthusiasm and your correction.

 

Temperament is paramount. Each year in rescue, at least 1 if not 2 are put down because they are unstable and a terrier that big that bites is not funny! There are some lines that throw up more reactive dogs than others, so you need to do your research. Don't be fooled by breeders who claim they breed 'working' Irish Terriers. There is even one chap who says he will 'run on' a pup for you and train it to work..........and all you have to do is hand over £6k

 

My next Irish will be worked on the beating line and possibly do some picking up now and then too.

 

Good luck - I don't want to put you off as they are a lovely breed and in the right hands, they are absolutely grand dogs.

[darbo 4,774]

thanks for the post mossdog informative and intresting. atb.

[Mossdog 27]

 

Seen alot of these sites darbo, and they certainly seem to be worked to good effect at most things. Never seen one working in the flesh, and they obviously look too big for earthwork, but they seem very versatile. I like em and wouldn't mind taking on an Irish terrier/grey

ive never seen one in the flesh Shaaark either only listened to the tales about my grandads dog and if the tales were true it took many a long tail of lord derbys estate in merseyside there is a dutch fella who has been breeding with some imported dogs in the lines. i have had a brief chat to him and he has invited me down to see the dogs and have a good talk to him. it maybe intresting. i dont know if anyone has actually purchased one with some sort of work in mind

 

When someone says 'work' - just make sure they don't mean "I let my dogs off the lead and they do what the heck they want.. sometimes they sniff round hedges and other times they will chase a hare half way accross the county" The 'imports' are an American show champion, as far as I can make out!

[darbo 4,774]

 

 

Seen alot of these sites darbo, and they certainly seem to be worked to good effect at most things. Never seen one working in the flesh, and they obviously look too big for earthwork, but they seem very versatile. I like em and wouldn't mind taking on an Irish terrier/grey

ive never seen one in the flesh Shaaark either only listened to the tales about my grandads dog and if the tales were true it took many a long tail of lord derbys estate in merseyside there is a dutch fella who has been breeding with some imported dogs in the lines. i have had a brief chat to him and he has invited me down to see the dogs and have a good talk to him. it maybe intresting. i dont know if anyone has actually purchased one with some sort of work in mind

 

When someone says 'work' - just make sure they don't mean "I let my dogs off the lead and they do what the heck they want.. sometimes they sniff round hedges and other times they will chase a hare half way accross the county" The 'imports' are an American show champion, as far as I can make out!

 

[rob190364 2,593]

Irish Terriers change hands for what can only be described as 'silly money' these days! There are a couple of guys who claim they are breeding 'working' Irish Terriers, but personally, I wouldn't pay close to £1,000 for a dog that is bred from just the same lines as the show dogs and there are no 'working' lines left. Having said that, the show lines can and have been trained to the gun, as search and rescue dogs, deer-tracking dogs and bushing dogs, so you just have to make your choice and do your research.

 

The good points are that a good Irish is intelligent, trainable, can be very soft-mouthed when retrieving and is fast and athletic. They were never drawing dogs. It's not really helpful to think of them as 'terriers' if your definition is a dog that goes to ground.

 

My last one was trained to work with the gun. His hunting style was very thorough and he would charge through anything once he was on a scent....He would stop on a whistle, go right or left or 'back'. I also need to point out that I achieved this when I was single, in my 20s and had nothing else to do

 

Bad points: I really think you have to want an Irish Terrier first and a working dog second, because they have their drawbacks. Mine never started a fight...but woe betide any dog who even 'looked at him funny'. He was fine most of the time, but I really had to handle him firmly and he knew I had the last word. The bit that is hard to put into words is that he absolutely needed a firm hand and training him (compared to the springer I now have) took a lot of patience and thinking 'outside the box'. You don't get away with sloppy handling with an Irish! If you are the sort of handler who really sets out to 'show him who is boss' and constantly bellow commands and use physical punnishment and never really praise your dog, you will end up with either a dog that switches off completely and ignores you, or one that won't hesitate to bite back. Likewise, if you are too soft and try the 'never say no' approach (the sort of dog training equivalent to the Trendy Parents in Viz circa 1990 ) you end up with a dog that runs rings around you. You need to be very consitent, very firm, but also very fair and make sure your praise is delivered with the same enthusiasm and your correction.

 

Temperament is paramount. Each year in rescue, at least 1 if not 2 are put down because they are unstable and a terrier that big that bites is not funny! There are some lines that throw up more reactive dogs than others, so you need to do your research. Don't be fooled by breeders who claim they breed 'working' Irish Terriers. There is even one chap who says he will 'run on' a pup for you and train it to work..........and all you have to do is hand over £6k

 

My next Irish will be worked on the beating line and possibly do some picking up now and then too.

 

Good luck - I don't want to put you off as they are a lovely breed and in the right hands, they are absolutely grand dogs.

interesting post.....just out of interest, you say there are no working lines left, and a couple of blokes asking silly money, but you've had one and will get another....so does that mean you're getting show lines and working them?

[Mossdog 27]

Yes, Rob. My last Irish was an ex-show dog. My personal preference is for a dog that goes back to the older Irish and northern English lines. My old dog went back to Teltown, Swinpen and Bens Heir, with Edbrios further forward.

 

They do vary a lot in appearance and temperament. I wanted an Irish Terrier first and foremost as a guard dog to travel with me on my rounds and keep me company and anything after that I regarded as a bonus. My only regret is that I didn't have him from a puppy, or at a time when I had more opportunity to work him, because now I've seen more bushng dogs and working gundogs, I have a much better idea of what I had (if that makes sense!)

 

With the show people, they tend to fall into 3 camps. One group will have nothing to do with working dogs and are on a mission to promote Irish as family pets for 'nice' familes (as in - families who think £800 a pup is reasonable)

 

Then there are those who trot out that old chestnut, "well, they can ALL do that - they used to --blah, blah, blah" whatever task you mention, from ratting to splitting the atom. These people have never tried to train their dogs to do anything other than trot up and down a show ring. Their dogs 'hunt' and some actually do have a strong predisposition to get their noses down, but their take on 'hunting' is just to go on a long walk, let the dog off the lead and watch it flush and chase (bet gamekeepers love them!) If you actually try to have a conversation with them about training and getting some control over their dog in the field, they go back into default, "they are very headstrong...red devils...blah...blah...." or "fat bloke in the pub knows a man who knows a man who trained his"

 

There is even talk of crossing Irish back to working Lakies - which I just think is daft, because it won't improve either breed and you only need to look at the numbers of working terrier types in rescue kennels to know that breeding worker to worker and selling to competant, working homes only is the way to go with working terriers. If you don't believe there is a HUGE problem, have a look at a site called Rescue Remedies and read the advice about Patterdales! The lady who runs it is one of the nicest and most well-meaning people out there, but she is dealing with hundreds of unwnated working terriers that have been sold as pets to people who haven't got a clue. She finds homes for them, but they spend the rest of their lives on the lead, having their hunting drive 'controlled' or 'substituted' - it's a whole different world

 

Finally, there are a few breeders who are honest about what they've done with their dogs and who also produce sound, healthy pups. A good few of these have actually done a bit with their dogs and also sold dogs to homes where they have really been worked. Ironically, these are the breeders who are often most wary of selling to working homes, because they know just how different an Irish Terrier is from a proper, traditional working terrier (it's a bit like comparing a lab with a HPR breed: you can't!) and don't want the new owner to be disappointed, or just pass the dog on.

 

I had an awful expereince recently, when I put a really sound bloke in touch with someone in the breed who I thought was sensible because he wanted a young dog to train up to track deer. The man I trusted, put him in touch with someone big in the show world, who literally 'sold him a pup' - the dog was unsocialised, emaciated, ridden with parasites and mentally unstable. Ironically, he took to tracking like a duck to water, but his temperament was just too unpredictable with people and sadly, he had to be put down. The chap now has a puppy and couldn't be more pleased with her progress. There does seem to be a myth among some of the show people that a dog with a basically dodgy temperament would be a good 'working' dog. An Irish Terrier that hasn't been properly socialised is about as much fun as a German Shepherd that hasn't been properly socialised! Having said that, a dog with a really sound temperament can cope with a lot more than one that was born a flake! It comes down to research again, as well as luck.

 

My personal view is that Irish Terriers in Engand go for stupid money. I was given my last one because he was a failed show dog and it was a case of being in the right place at the right time. I'd probably go down that route again to be honest, or else go over to Ireland, because there generally seem to be pups from lines I like advertised on donedeal and I'd be prepared to go and ask questions, look at pedigrees and check out the parents' temperament (and still be better off than if I parted with nearly a month's wages!!!) If I saw nothing I liked once I was over there, I'd just catch up with a few cousins instea

 

So, it really is a case of 'buyer beware' but if you get a good one, you'll have a brilliant life together. My only conclusion is - like I said at the start - you have to want an Irish terrier first and foremost, then put the work in and hope for the best.

 

Sorry - that was a long post!!!