Recall Issues

[Dan Crombie 0]

Got a twenty week old springer pup a fortnight ago, and starting to have problems with her coming back when called. When first got her she was ok she would come back, but now she is getting used to the place she is starting to ignore or if she does respond she will run towards me and past.

Anybody with any tips as to how to get her to come to call again? Would it be an idea to run her on a long lead, so that I have a way of encouraging her back?

[Waz 4,212]

What reward do you give when she DOES come back?

[Dan Crombie 0]

She gets rewarded with treat and/or make a big fuss of her.

[ftm 3,357]

i would try the long lead mate if that dont work go right back to basics and get that bond between you & dog right and that should sort it -good luck -billy

[Casso 1,256]

Got a twenty week old springer pup a fortnight ago, and starting to have problems with her coming back when called. When first got her she was ok she would come back, but now she is getting used to the place she is starting to ignore or if she does respond she will run towards me and past.

Anybody with any tips as to how to get her to come to call again? Would it be an idea to run her on a long lead, so that I have a way of encouraging her back?

 

dogs are continuously programmed to achieve something, hunting dogs do this by way of hunting, we know this because driven dogs dont need to be thought to hunt they just need to listen to commands to achieve it , the trick is to give the pup a sense of achievement in its dealings with us,

 

basically if we analyse the internal workings of a dog we would find tension is its main motivator, its driven internally, external objects just become ways of relieving tension and it dont really matter what those objects are , take protection work for example those dogs whom herded sheep for hundreds of years have made a successful transition to working in a completely different environment due to the fact that it fulfils the dogs sense of achievement and by doing so releases tension,

 

so if we are not giving a dog a sense of achievement it will look for it itself, a lot will proscribe fussing and treats and praise while well intended dont really mount up to much when dealing with a confused pup who you need to focus on you, since the pup is coming back to a degree but running past i would focus on bodily contact as your number one if we dont have contact we dont have trust in the relationship,

 

all animals work for food and the pup should be no different make him work to be fed, what i mean by that is prepare food and take it with you, feed him only when he makes contact, have him jump up on you with its front paws on you and feed, lift it a little out of reach and make him work for it jumping up for it also you can hold food in one hand while holding him off with the other making him push in for it ,

 

this allows three things to happen, one is that bodily contact with you will become a real positive for the pup , two he will develop a sense of achievement through this activity with you and three is that the pup will have to give up fear the more contact he makes to eat the more fear he has to give up, fear is the single biggest hurdle for a dog to get over in the relationship, and as an add on it food aggression will never be an issue

 

take him out REALLY hungry and feed him in this manner, put his food into a large pouch an old nail bag is great,call him up and feed him at intervals during the walk making him really work to be fed and in a month you will have a different dog,

best of luck

[danspence2012 5]

Hi, I had a similar problem with a pup.. I used a 20 mtre lead. Cast the dog off and give it a few minuites then recall…. If the dog ignores you then give it a little tug. Keep recalling as you do it,

 

Once the dog is back make a fuss “good dog” ect, im not fan of treats just praise for me and works.

 

You will find the dog suddenly gets very sharp on the recall whistle over time..

 

It is all about repeating just keep repeating it and repeating it. I will not happen or be steady to recall after 6 trys.. keep doing it 5 mins aday for a few weeks. Then carry on with your walk ect.

 

The dog will switch off if you train for to long.

[camokev64 36]

Very interesting topic !

 

The last two entries are basically answering two situations that you can encounter in dog training.

 

One thing that has to be established is whether the dog is just plainly ignoring you or is afraid to come into you on the recall,WHICH WILL REQUIRE TWO TOTALLY OPPOSITE APPROACHES TO REMEDY THE FAULT. NB You don`t reward dogs for defiance ! ( especially with food ).

From the content of the original post i would say the young dog is "cocking a`deaf`un " ( as in ears ),probably through exercising the dog "OFF" the lead for way to long.

Do you see what i am getting at ?

 

Regards K.

[Casso 1,256]

i understand what the last poster is getting at to a degree but without establishing a real trust as our foundation for a working relationship what we do after with the dog when the going gets tough will be affected by the shaky footings in the relationship,

 

my first point of call in judging the relationship is contact, its a big tell, far too many working dog owners working off pet dog trainers template especially the jumping up issue granted pet dog owners dont need to work hand in paw many hours a day and resolve issues through discipline and dominance's, from a working point of view my first point of call is to build TRUST before training or any confrontation which brings me into conflict with the mutt ,

 

so number one is that the dog must have zero issues being in my space or making contact in fact i encourage it builds confidence ,a lot of lads have big problems with dogs coming into their space those last few feet and dont see themselves as the problem seemly blaming the dog,

 

a dog can look like he is tuning us out while in reality he has never being tuned in in the first place , the cracks will only show in a unfamiliar or chaotic situation and when the owner gets mad the dog reverts back to submissive mindset already installed by the owner and the dog will ignore and start sniffing about the place , my first point of call is always building the relationship, thats where im coming from on this one bud

best of luck

[ftm 3,357]

casso is spot on ! trust is a must in a dogs development as a nervous dog wont give you what a happy bold dog will -billy

[camokev64 36]

Yes Casso has some informative points albeit obvious.the point in question is differentiating when to apply the correct code of correction in the appropriate circumstance taking age into consideration ( this is why people go for dog lessons because they cannot read dogs body language ).You can read all the dog behaviour books you want and watch all the dvd`s but if you can`t read a dog it`ll all end the same way !

The chap on the original post is not talking about a situation in his own personal space,Yes it`s running passed him but that is down to basic`s not being established( train in confined spaces hence controlling the situation ).And yes we all know not to touch a dog 99% of the time in your own personnel space thus to promote good delivery/walking at heel.But this dog is also cocking a deaf`un / doing it`s own thing ( and that does`nt mean rag the dog all over to short it ). K

[Casso 1,256]

your understanding of canine body language must be quiet something, over the net but i dont believe a dog suddenly decides to become anti social

 

every pup is born social, its whatever happens between that early stage where it will come to any sound you make to the stage where the pup deciding to disobey commands later on is a case of the the owner not quiet grasping want needs to be done or in a lot of cases withheld,

 

if we are able to follow on his progression in every stage of development from food in the early stages to later drive as the pup sexually matures and make ourselves the main focus of the pup interest the pup will never ignore us because we are the most interesting thing in his life so before we include corrections we must make the pup think the sun shines out of our rear end ,

 

by far the most suitable time to deliver a correction is while the dog is in drive, when a dog is in drive he is in complete harmony with its environment us included , so a correction given then is just what drive feels like for the dog, what i mean by that is protection dogs can actually come to believe that getting hit by objects on the way to the baddie is what drive feels like whereas when not in that state and just out for a walk and gets hit it will react just like any other dog and shy away, its also the fastest mindset a dog can learn in, it learns quicker then than any other mental state, given corrections while a dog is in a neutral state stand on their own and we become the negative,

 

what im saying is that at no stage in the pups development no matter what it does will i be seen as the bad guy by becoming the bad guy i will make an anti social pup so i manage the pup along until drive kicks in and then he can become responsible for his actions but all the time he is growing in confidence himself and in me,

 

so if i recall and he doesn't burn the feet off himself to get to me, i dont think he just deciding to pull a fast one or do his own thing or he doesn't think im pack leader, its the fact i haven't made himself interesting enough or understood enough, the fault is with the owner not the dog, keeping yourself social to the mutt is the key you'll have a dog then that will run through fire for you let alone come when called,

best of luck with the dogs over the new year,

Edited December 23, 2012 by Casso

[ftm 3,357]

well said casso its how ive trained my springer he thinks im GOD! lol but it bloody works for both of us so its the way i will train my next dog when i choose to take another one on -billy

[camokev64 36]

Judging a dogs state of mind or body language even in a email or telephone conversation is probably difficult for alot of us being.reliant on the owner painting a true picture of events,but can be achieved with experience.

Regards Trust / pack leader blady blar, you ain`t stating nothing new, alot of people already build on these basic`s with out realizing,The pack leader is certainly not established in the wild dog world with trust ( but they still hunt effectively as a unit,prey drive ),however we have the great benefit of both kidding the dog into doing the right thing and also the ability to establish the boundaries.

Training a gundog dog seriously whether to enter field trials or to be a well controlled working animal in the shooting field requires a very structured / dedicated approach and even then they all don`t make it.

For example your success rate of achieving your goals goes right out the window if "old patch" is taken out in the park for an hour "off the lead" p@*<ing on all the trees in the district and generally doing what he likes.Then Mr Hopeful Lab dog trailer/trainer wants to then try and teach "old patch" some nice perfect walking to heel discipline,stopping when you stop then walking on "unprompted".Mr Hopeful will become a very frustrated man.

 

It was wet picking up on those fells yesterday ! But i think my pack have still got trust in me !!

 

Have a gud un.

Edited December 23, 2012 by camokev64

[Rhodey 96]

If it doesnt come back when its called stick your foot up its arse it will soon learn

[danw 1,748]

Lol dog psychology 101 why not use 100 words when 10 will do

 

 

Mate you've had the dog 2 weeks and it is already 5 months old I should strongly think about your bond/relationship you have with it before you let it off the lead again