gnasher16 31,476 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Here gnash, meant to ask. I was watching that game last night and the stadium looked awesome. I thought about you and was meaning to ask, what's the stadiums like? We look at the polish etc as third class citizens but it looks like we are wrong. No your right they are .............we travelled from Donetsk up to Kiev by taxis believe it or not......we knew we had near 5 days to do it so just stayed here and there and travelled a bit ever day its around 550 miles between the 2......we did the same in France in 98 its a good giggle and a great way to get into the lifestyle of a country......the grounds themself were fantastic the Olympic Stadium in Kiev was as big and futuristic as any ground ive ever been to in Europe....food and drink was a pit pony but you dont go to footie for the dining experience do you......for a mile or so around the grounds it seemed quite nice and modern and you would wonder why they are all deserting the place.......................but stone me,the days travelling up to Kiev where we got to really see the country what a toilet !!............ I suppose its similar to the London Olympics,every day i see them painting up and building all pretty new stuff around the stadiums being used........but walk a bit away and its still the depressing nastiness of inner London !....all for show. Just out of interest,across the way from the Olympic Stadium Kiev is a stadium called The Zenit......which apparently was where the match that the film Escape to Victory was based on actually took place....theres a lot of history but its a pretty desperate place......stadiums wise though you couldnt fault them nice pitches,good lay out/seating etc....................also,i dont think we realise how massive that Chernobyl thing was in their lives,2 different taxi drivers were telling us of members of their families who had died of " Chernobyl " as they call it.....the way we say someone died of cancer they say someone died of Chernobyl !!......terrible tragedy id never really paid that much attention to it before now. Edited June 28, 2012 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 31,476 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Got to disagree with you about the grass roots Baw , Imo it all stems from there ,it,s already been mentioned about kids playing on full size pitches ,add to that it,s far to competitive at too young an age , when it should be about individual coaching and making each kid a better player the emphisis is on having a succesful team as the sight of parents and coaches yelling and screaming at 10 year old kids everyweekend testifies , kids whoare slow to develop physically are left behind , faults in technique that would take a half hour of coaching to sort out are overlooked , its all bigger ,faster ,stronger and winning ,and until there is a complete change in the way we treat our kids we will continue to be second rate . Couldnt agree more Stan. I found this out some years ago my son was a real good talent played for a well known club locally and eventually got picked up by Leyton Orient,ok not the greatest club in the world but he was getting on the ladder.....he,s a big strong powerful lad but had a good touch and generally a good understanding of the game could read situations quick etc..........he went there as a central midfielder and within a few months they had put him into the back four as a centre half.......all the nice touches and quick brain he had were forgotten about and his whole game became about getting his head on the ball before the opposing centre forward !! He signed schoolboy forms with them but due to a combination of girls/nightlife and me pushing him too hard he gave the game up......but the reality seems to be from an early age in this country we encourage the physical qualities in our coaching before anything esle...........total opposite to the rest of the world.....so it must tell us something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 My lad is the same Gnash but i thought opposite , he is powerfull/ agressive and has a will to win you couldnt buy, knows his limits and plays the game simple , but i was bangin my head watchin him constantly bein played centre mid by coaches usin his aggression/determination to overpower teams, yes he was heads above anyone over here but the higher up the ladder he was going to go i knew he would be out off his depth , i always told him centre half was/would be his position , he plays there now coached by a German who straight away played him there , and it gives him the opportunity to show/prove his worth to a team what he couldnt do in centre mid at the level he plays now, As i always told him Barca have the most gifted players in the world , but Messi , Ineista Xavi ect couldnt play where/like Puyol does for the team ! There is definetly somethin not right in our coachin system which is being overlooked at grass roots level ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 My lad is the same Gnash but i thought opposite , he is powerfull/ agressive and has a will to win you couldnt buy, knows his limits and plays the game simple , but i was bangin my head watchin him constantly bein played centre mid by coaches usin his aggression/determination to overpower teams, yes he was heads above anyone over here but the higher up the ladder he was going to go i knew he would be out off his depth , i always told him centre half was/would be his position , he plays there now coached by a German who straight away played him there , and it gives him the opportunity to show/prove his worth to a team what he couldnt do in centre mid at the level he plays now, As i always told him Barca have the most gifted players in the world , but Messi , Ineista Xavi ect couldnt play where/like Puyol does for the team ! There is definetly somethin not right in our coachin system which is being overlooked at grass roots level ! Dont you think thats where a real coach/manager steps up to the plate?. To be able to watch a player and say "That lads out of position, try him there"....Theres been lots of times you have heard of players starting there career in a certain position only to be changed into another. I wonder if many are changed into the wrong position just as much as the ones that are changed for the better... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 My lad is the same Gnash but i thought opposite , he is powerfull/ agressive and has a will to win you couldnt buy, knows his limits and plays the game simple , but i was bangin my head watchin him constantly bein played centre mid by coaches usin his aggression/determination to overpower teams, yes he was heads above anyone over here but the higher up the ladder he was going to go i knew he would be out off his depth , i always told him centre half was/would be his position , he plays there now coached by a German who straight away played him there , and it gives him the opportunity to show/prove his worth to a team what he couldnt do in centre mid at the level he plays now, As i always told him Barca have the most gifted players in the world , but Messi , Ineista Xavi ect couldnt play where/like Puyol does for the team ! There is definetly somethin not right in our coachin system which is being overlooked at grass roots level ! Dont you think thats where a real coach/manager steps up to the plate?. To be able to watch a player and say "That lads out of position, try him there"....Theres been lots of times you have heard of players starting there career in a certain position only to be changed into another. I wonder if many are changed into the wrong position just as much as the ones that are changed for the better... couldnt agree more , Ashley Cole was a striker/winger , Shearer unbelievably was put in GOAL'S , thats just 2 example's , just think how many lads like Gnasher's have left the game bein disalusioned where coaches are playin them ect , we need to be looking at other countries ways and takin some off there methods or are we too proud to do that , Italian football to me has always been very defensive minded well the other night they played attackin football while we where chasin shadows YET on the bench we had the pace to TERRIFY them down the wings in Chamberlain & Walcott ... But who played Milner & Young , Milner a hard workin pro and a very good club player but at International level pace is what you need and he aint got any , Young had a terrible start to the tournament and it got worse but he played every game and when he did make a changs it was Henderson ... i think that sums up our Mentality , and thats at the TOP off English football so god help the grass root's level !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 My lad is the same Gnash but i thought opposite , he is powerfull/ agressive and has a will to win you couldnt buy, knows his limits and plays the game simple , but i was bangin my head watchin him constantly bein played centre mid by coaches usin his aggression/determination to overpower teams, yes he was heads above anyone over here but the higher up the ladder he was going to go i knew he would be out off his depth , i always told him centre half was/would be his position , he plays there now coached by a German who straight away played him there , and it gives him the opportunity to show/prove his worth to a team what he couldnt do in centre mid at the level he plays now, As i always told him Barca have the most gifted players in the world , but Messi , Ineista Xavi ect couldnt play where/like Puyol does for the team ! There is definetly somethin not right in our coachin system which is being overlooked at grass roots level ! Dont you think thats where a real coach/manager steps up to the plate?. To be able to watch a player and say "That lads out of position, try him there"....Theres been lots of times you have heard of players starting there career in a certain position only to be changed into another. I wonder if many are changed into the wrong position just as much as the ones that are changed for the better... couldnt agree more , Ashley Cole was a striker/winger , Shearer unbelievably was put in GOAL'S , thats just 2 example's , just think how many lads like Gnasher's have left the game bein disalusioned where coaches are playin them ect , we need to be looking at other countries ways and takin some off there methods or are we too proud to do that , Italian football to me has always been very defensive minded well the other night they played attackin football while we where chasin shadows YET on the bench we had the pace to TERRIFY them down the wings in Chamberlain & Walcott ... But who played Milner & Young , Milner a hard workin pro and a very good club player but at International level pace is what you need and he aint got any , Young had a terrible start to the tournament and it got worse but he played every game and when he did make a changs it was Henderson ... i think that sums up our Mentality , and thats at the TOP off English football so god help the grass root's level !! Young played very well as a support striker in the warm up games before the tourney, it ws only when they dropped him back onto the left wing his performances started getting worse IMO. England have had a chronic weakness in that position for years and trying to fill it has wasted so much of the players talents they've tried shoehorning out there like Joe Cole, and was responsible for Scholes calling time on his international career. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I Keep hearin off the EXPERT'S Rooney is WORLD CLASS , i beg to Differ , Premiership Class i Agree , but pls someone tell me what he has done on the World Stage to be classed that good cause i aint seen it yet , Barca v Man.u champions league finalthe biggest game in european club football when he really could off put his mark down against Messi and Co he was awful , this tournament for England his short passin was terrible never mind anythin else yet still the English Press & Ex Players keep sayin he is World Class , who am i to Question them but i havent seen it , premiership class i agree . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) My lad is the same Gnash but i thought opposite , he is powerfull/ agressive and has a will to win you couldnt buy, knows his limits and plays the game simple , but i was bangin my head watchin him constantly bein played centre mid by coaches usin his aggression/determination to overpower teams, yes he was heads above anyone over here but the higher up the ladder he was going to go i knew he would be out off his depth , i always told him centre half was/would be his position , he plays there now coached by a German who straight away played him there , and it gives him the opportunity to show/prove his worth to a team what he couldnt do in centre mid at the level he plays now, As i always told him Barca have the most gifted players in the world , but Messi , Ineista Xavi ect couldnt play where/like Puyol does for the team ! There is definetly somethin not right in our coachin system which is being overlooked at grass roots level ! Dont you think thats where a real coach/manager steps up to the plate?. To be able to watch a player and say "That lads out of position, try him there"....Theres been lots of times you have heard of players starting there career in a certain position only to be changed into another. I wonder if many are changed into the wrong position just as much as the ones that are changed for the better... couldnt agree more , Ashley Cole was a striker/winger , Shearer unbelievably was put in GOAL'S , thats just 2 example's , just think how many lads like Gnasher's have left the game bein disalusioned where coaches are playin them ect , we need to be looking at other countries ways and takin some off there methods or are we too proud to do that , Italian football to me has always been very defensive minded well the other night they played attackin football while we where chasin shadows YET on the bench we had the pace to TERRIFY them down the wings in Chamberlain & Walcott ... But who played Milner & Young , Milner a hard workin pro and a very good club player but at International level pace is what you need and he aint got any , Young had a terrible start to the tournament and it got worse but he played every game and when he did make a changs it was Henderson ... i think that sums up our Mentality , and thats at the TOP off English football so god help the grass root's level !! Young played very well as a support striker in the warm up games before the tourney, it ws only when they dropped him back onto the left wing his performances started getting worse IMO. England have had a chronic weakness in that position for years and trying to fill it has wasted so much of the players talents they've tried shoehorning out there like Joe Cole, and was responsible for Scholes calling time on his international career. You have hit the nail on the head Playin players out off position at International Level will never work and young hasnt the ability at that level to do that , thats no disrespect to him , the odd meaningless game maybe but when it comes to the big games your always going to be fightin a loosin battle ! Edited to add Young did play the support role in the 1st game then was switched out wide when it didnt work so thats what i meant when sayin playin players out off position , which at this level will be found wantin , Edited June 28, 2012 by lanesra Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I thought he might have been up there during the first game but couldn't remember for definite! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Its a sure sign of a shit manager when players are played out of position. What does it say to the other players on the park if some other player is playing out of position and in your position and you cant get a game...it must cause arguements between the players. I would walk out of a club if my position came available through someone getting injured but another player stepped in my place who didnt even play there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Its a sure sign of a shit manager when players are played out of position. What does it say to the other players on the park if some other player is playing out of position and in your position and you cant get a game...it must cause arguements between the players. I would walk out of a club if my position came available through someone getting injured but another player stepped in my place who didnt even play there. Problem is they haven't got anyone decent who is a natural fit for the left wing of the 4-4-2 they were playing Lab, unless you count Stewart '79 shots, 0 assists, 0 goals for Liverpool all season' Downing. Maybe they need to adapt their system to suit the decent players they have got to get the best out of them, instead of trying to get the players to adapt to a set system. What do I know though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Its a sure sign of a shit manager when players are played out of position. What does it say to the other players on the park if some other player is playing out of position and in your position and you cant get a game...it must cause arguements between the players. I would walk out of a club if my position came available through someone getting injured but another player stepped in my place who didnt even play there. Problem is Lab you wouldnt and them it happen too dont ....... not if you where on 50 grand a week , and too be honest forget all the "Has he no morals sat on the bench pickin up his wagers" ... i dont know a single person that would rip up a contract in that circumstance ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stewie 3,387 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 right england are out so no need to discuss us further on this thread.... spain v portugal kick of in half an hour so what are your predictions??.... im going for a spain win on penos.... Did you have a bet on that? as usual when i get it right i never mate... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stewie 3,387 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 tonight im going 2-0 to the krauts... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lanesra 4,007 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Its a sure sign of a shit manager when players are played out of position. What does it say to the other players on the park if some other player is playing out of position and in your position and you cant get a game...it must cause arguements between the players. I would walk out of a club if my position came available through someone getting injured but another player stepped in my place who didnt even play there. Problem is they haven't got anyone decent who is a natural fit for the left wing of the 4-4-2 they were playing Lab, unless you count Stewart '79 shots, 0 assists, 0 goals for Liverpool all season' Downing. Maybe they need to adapt their system to suit the decent players they have got to get the best out of them, instead of trying to get the players to adapt to a set system. What do I know though! I think your right Malt , its the system , with the players we have, id like too see 5 in midfield , forget this supportin striker carry on , 2 Quick wide men and 3 in the centre pickin up droppin off and attacking i.e. Gerrard , Wilshire and Parker at the present time when fit . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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