breeding percentages...................

[Cleanspade 3,324]

what percentages do you think you should get from good lines of working terriers. after reading another thread i got to wondering. how many good consistent terriers should we be looking to get from ..say a litter of five pups. or vwould you need to breed more than one litter to get a decent worker. nothing fancy just honest find and stay terriers. ........................................................ps. no porkies.

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

1 in 5....if that,my best bitch to my best dog produce nothing to write home about.nothing to match the sire or dam.good ratting bitch but that was all, couldnt be dug too and she was 3 before she fited and was pts.

[stop.end 4,082]

lol... well in my opinion the reason behind buying line bred names is because beleive it or not 90% of the pups or 4 outa 5 or whatever you wana put the odds as... when bitch and dog were mated then 90% or so of the pups worked on the first litter then second litter then so on.... now these terriers were all handed out to digging men which were given great thought into given a pup for free and would make the terrier into what they were to become...after all its not just the dog that makes the man... but also what the man makes of the dog... ie.. its full potential knowing when the pup is ready to take that next step... or just as importantly knowing when it was not READY for the next step... thats why if you buy a line bred dog now chances are that that pup was given in good faith and turned out good but then owner starts to get an ego and then dollar signs kick in when he knows he can cash in.... so by now you have pups going to all tom dick and harrys with no real knowledge of how to work terriers never mind the 1s from the specific lines that he has decided to buy...then because harry didnt know how or when to enter the dog such and such is lines are shite...... so yous can all put the names and lines down if yous want... but just remember these men all started lines for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to dig... and theres only a few real men out there today carrying out the same tradition that the old men handed down to us..... so if it wasnt for these men we would not be writing our hunting tales today ..... now im not einstein but ill tell you what ...im only on here a few months but its very easy to seperate the wheat from the chaff..... happy christmas folks atb stopend....

[Mosby 355]

I am very curious about this as well Cleanspade. I ask alot of guys this question... jagd guys are producing the best numbers I gotta say. But those dogs can be a pain in the ass ha ha. If I get 1 in 5 I am happy. But I'm crossing totally different styles of workers. If those odds continue after sometime breeding my own stock I don't deserve to breed anymore. If I were getting those kind of odds from established lines I wouldn't breed the dogs again. Too much litter wastage. I know that this isn't super relative to ya'll but they are terriers and they do their job to ground... I have heard of jagd terrier breedings where certain studs and bitches consistently produced 100% litters. Dogs that passed 100% in the trials. That is good breeding fellas.

My first breeding that wasn't under my dad's control was a couple years ago. I was at the university and spent no time with the pups. I spent all my time with my older dogs everyday of every weekend. I ruined the litter in my opinion. 1 out of 6 was good and he died while working. Now I have retired most of the old dogs and I spend all my time with pups ratting and getting them on possums, small coons, small nutria... Out of 11 pups only 2 have shown no interest - they're now gone. The rest have to be under the utmost supervision to protect them from getting in over their heads too young. Not all are at the same level at the same age. Leeway is given but they all show promise if I don't screw it up. I can't keep numbers like this without friends though, it takes a crew to get the best out of all the breedings.

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

Ive always had more chaff then wheat...the joy of breeding from plummers

[THE DEALER! 77]

lol... well in my opinion the reason behind buying line bred names is because beleive it or not 90% of the pups or 4 outa 5 or whatever you wana put the odds as... when bitch and dog were mated then 90% or so of the pups worked on the first litter then second litter then so on.... now these terriers were all handed out to digging men which were given great thought into given a pup for free and would make the terrier into what they were to become...after all its not just the dog that makes the man... but also what the man makes of the dog... ie.. its full potential knowing when the pup is ready to take that next step... or just as importantly knowing when it was not READY for the next step... thats why if you buy a line bred dog now chances are that that pup was given in good faith and turned out good but then owner starts to get an ego and then dollar signs kick in when he knows he can cash in.... so by now you have pups going to all tom dick and harrys with no real knowledge of how to work terriers never mind the 1s from the specific lines that he has decided to buy...then because harry didnt know how or when to enter the dog such and such is lines are shite...... so yous can all put the names and lines down if yous want... but just remember these men all started lines for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to dig... and theres only a few real men out there today carrying out the same tradition that the old men handed down to us..... so if it wasnt for these men we would not be writing our hunting tales today ..... now im not einstein but ill tell you what ...im only on here a few months but its very easy to seperate the wheat from the chaff..... happy christmas folks atb stopend....

 

your living in dream land lad if you think terrier men can produce 90% top class working terriers from a litter, breeding from working lines dont guarantee you working litters, just makes ye feel good and a bit better if its done that way.

stick up a photo please or the name of any dog you know please that can or has produced 90 % from his / her litters, and then we will start sorting the wheat from the chaff.

[stop.end 4,082]

lol... well in my opinion the reason behind buying line bred names is because beleive it or not 90% of the pups or 4 outa 5 or whatever you wana put the odds as... when bitch and dog were mated then 90% or so of the pups worked on the first litter then second litter then so on.... now these terriers were all handed out to digging men which were given great thought into given a pup for free and would make the terrier into what they were to become...after all its not just the dog that makes the man... but also what the man makes of the dog... ie.. its full potential knowing when the pup is ready to take that next step... or just as importantly knowing when it was not READY for the next step... thats why if you buy a line bred dog now chances are that that pup was given in good faith and turned out good but then owner starts to get an ego and then dollar signs kick in when he knows he can cash in.... so by now you have pups going to all tom dick and harrys with no real knowledge of how to work terriers never mind the 1s from the specific lines that he has decided to buy...then because harry didnt know how or when to enter the dog such and such is lines are shite...... so yous can all put the names and lines down if yous want... but just remember these men all started lines for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to dig... and theres only a few real men out there today carrying out the same tradition that the old men handed down to us..... so if it wasnt for these men we would not be writing our hunting tales today ..... now im not einstein but ill tell you what ...im only on here a few months but its very easy to seperate the wheat from the chaff..... happy christmas folks atb stopend....

 

your living in dream land lad if you think terrier men can produce 90% top class working terriers from a litter, breeding from working lines dont guarantee you working litters, just makes ye feel good and a bit better if its done that way.

stick up a photo please or the name of any dog you know please that can or has produced 90 % from his / her litters, and then we will start sorting the wheat from the chaff.

lol here we go ... well here 1 for you..litter of 4 russells...there 18 months now..3 working or been dug too just hope they keep at it lol .. 1 hasnt because the guy hasnt put as much time into it but he showing good signs now he starting to get out.... thread the other day barry 123 dug 3 sisters outa the same line of russells and the ma... dont know how many pups were in that litter.... another man i know bred russells 2 years ago all the dogs are going good now.... if these men were only producing 1 pup outa 5 in a litter i can tell you they would not be getting mated...to go through all that time and thought and only produce 1 pup... if this is what you are producing in a litter...then its defo not hard for you to seperate wheat from chaff..... 1 wheat froma litter of chaffs ehh DEALER...

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

whats your view on it Clean spade?

[THE DEALER! 77]

lol... well in my opinion the reason behind buying line bred names is because beleive it or not 90% of the pups or 4 outa 5 or whatever you wana put the odds as... when bitch and dog were mated then 90% or so of the pups worked on the first litter then second litter then so on.... now these terriers were all handed out to digging men which were given great thought into given a pup for free and would make the terrier into what they were to become...after all its not just the dog that makes the man... but also what the man makes of the dog... ie.. its full potential knowing when the pup is ready to take that next step... or just as importantly knowing when it was not READY for the next step... thats why if you buy a line bred dog now chances are that that pup was given in good faith and turned out good but then owner starts to get an ego and then dollar signs kick in when he knows he can cash in.... so by now you have pups going to all tom dick and harrys with no real knowledge of how to work terriers never mind the 1s from the specific lines that he has decided to buy...then because harry didnt know how or when to enter the dog such and such is lines are shite...... so yous can all put the names and lines down if yous want... but just remember these men all started lines for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to dig... and theres only a few real men out there today carrying out the same tradition that the old men handed down to us..... so if it wasnt for these men we would not be writing our hunting tales today ..... now im not einstein but ill tell you what ...im only on here a few months but its very easy to seperate the wheat from the chaff..... happy christmas folks atb stopend....

 

your living in dream land lad if you think terrier men can produce 90% top class working terriers from a litter, breeding from working lines dont guarantee you working litters, just makes ye feel good and a bit better if its done that way.

stick up a photo please or the name of any dog you know please that can or has produced 90 % from his / her litters, and then we will start sorting the wheat from the chaff.

lol here we go ... well here 1 for you..litter of 4 russells...there 18 months now..3 working or been dug too just hope they keep at it lol .. 1 hasnt because the guy hasnt put as much time into it but he showing good signs now he starting to get out.... thread the other day barry 123 dug 3 sisters outa the same line of russells and the ma... dont know how many pups were in that litter.... another man i know bred russells 2 years ago all the dogs are going good now.... if these men were only producing 1 pup outa 5 in a litter i can tell you they would not be getting mated...to go through all that time and thought and only produce 1 pup... if this is what you are producing in a litter...then its defo not hard for you to seperate wheat from chaff..... 1 wheat froma litter of chaffs ehh DEALER...

 

there 18 months now, is that the back up story to your 90 % theory, and another man bred 2 years ago ??????? always knew you were a boy trying to talk like a man.

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

18 months old is far from proven.

[stop.end 4,082]

lol... well in my opinion the reason behind buying line bred names is because beleive it or not 90% of the pups or 4 outa 5 or whatever you wana put the odds as... when bitch and dog were mated then 90% or so of the pups worked on the first litter then second litter then so on.... now these terriers were all handed out to digging men which were given great thought into given a pup for free and would make the terrier into what they were to become...after all its not just the dog that makes the man... but also what the man makes of the dog... ie.. its full potential knowing when the pup is ready to take that next step... or just as importantly knowing when it was not READY for the next step... thats why if you buy a line bred dog now chances are that that pup was given in good faith and turned out good but then owner starts to get an ego and then dollar signs kick in when he knows he can cash in.... so by now you have pups going to all tom dick and harrys with no real knowledge of how to work terriers never mind the 1s from the specific lines that he has decided to buy...then because harry didnt know how or when to enter the dog such and such is lines are shite...... so yous can all put the names and lines down if yous want... but just remember these men all started lines for 1 reason and 1 reason only and that was to dig... and theres only a few real men out there today carrying out the same tradition that the old men handed down to us..... so if it wasnt for these men we would not be writing our hunting tales today ..... now im not einstein but ill tell you what ...im only on here a few months but its very easy to seperate the wheat from the chaff..... happy christmas folks atb stopend....

 

your living in dream land lad if you think terrier men can produce 90% top class working terriers from a litter, breeding from working lines dont guarantee you working litters, just makes ye feel good and a bit better if its done that way.

stick up a photo please or the name of any dog you know please that can or has produced 90 % from his / her litters, and then we will start sorting the wheat from the chaff.

lol here we go ... well here 1 for you..litter of 4 russells...there 18 months now..3 working or been dug too just hope they keep at it lol .. 1 hasnt because the guy hasnt put as much time into it but he showing good signs now he starting to get out.... thread the other day barry 123 dug 3 sisters outa the same line of russells and the ma... dont know how many pups were in that litter.... another man i know bred russells 2 years ago all the dogs are going good now.... if these men were only producing 1 pup outa 5 in a litter i can tell you they would not be getting mated...to go through all that time and thought and only produce 1 pup... if this is what you are producing in a litter...then its defo not hard for you to seperate wheat from chaff..... 1 wheat froma litter of chaffs ehh DEALER...

 

there 18 months now, is that the back up story to your 90 % theory, and another man bred 2 years ago ??????? always knew you were a boy trying to talk like a man.

lmao... naw did you read my post??? where i said JUST HOPE THEY KEEP AT IT... ...

[Cleanspade 3,324]

whats your view on it Clean spade?

 

if i was looking for top grade digging terriers. i think i would be more than happy if i produced one good dog out of five. good fox bolting terriers i'd be looking for at least 50/50.if not more. and for an all round terrier for pesting. rat rabbit and bolt the odd fox. i would be wanting two out of three to be up to scratch. the qualities needed for a good digging terrier that will work for many years are far more difficult to breed than the latter i m o. so i would have to agree with DEALER. i have seen whole litters work to a reasonable standard. but not a whole litter that are all of a high standard. and i would hazard a guess that if folk could consistantly produce high percentages . a lot of folk would lose interest as the challange would not be the same. luckily i dont need this so would be content with 50/50.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

C.S,I don't think there is a hard and fast reliable answer to your question,as you know by your comments in the past I've bred a lot of terriers,russells,lakies,fells,plummers and other crosses between them,I've put 2 100% digging dogs together and produced nothing worth noting,I tried 5 different lines of stud dogs over a superb russell bitch I had and in 5 litters she produced only a few steady digging dogs and none of her calibre.The most reliable breed for producing steady working stock were the pats or fell terriers but that was 20yrs ago now but I would say 90% or more was about right as I never bred a quitter to my knowledge but they were from very good blood lines (Gould,Nuttall,Middleton) and even lads with no experience entered them easilly.I find some bitches can produce steady workers(what some may call brood bitches) no matter what the stud, so there is no way of telling untill you consistantly breed or repeat mate when you get it right but all this takes time and effort to find out the success of a litter and sometimes you don't get enough feedback from lads to conclude one way or the other,the only thing I would say is that there are a lot of oversized,underworked very second rate dogs being bred for show quality that have seriously knocked the working ability of the stock in our modern day terrier breeds and the fact we are talking about such poor percentages being produced is testament to this,ask anyone over the age of 50 if the terriers of today are of the quality we worked and you'll find that % is low also,with the constraints put in place by the digging laws in this country decent workers will be harder and harder to find,most the decent stock is now worked in Ireland and without the work for them in this country all terrier breeds will and have suffered as a consequence,just my opinion,WM

[Cleanspade 3,324]

i agree with what your saying WM. the fact that a lot of terriers that make first class. dont have the ability to reproduce the same qualities despite being very well bred proves the point that good honest terriers are a very difficult thing to breed. so percentages will be on the lower side if we are honest with ourselves.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Cheers Cleanspade and a merry christmas to one and all,WM