before there time

[wag 13]

well i was sat talking to my friend at dinner and terriers came up , we got tallking about the likes of gouldy , harcomb,nuttal, a good few of them actually , but then my friend asked the question what about the terrier men before the likes of gouldy , etc , etc ...and i could not answer him....

 

 

so my question is can anyone tell me who the terriermen were before the guys that have made a name for themselves through working terriers over lets say the last 30 to 40 years ..what type of terrier they would keep wether it be russels etc, etc , i know they would have to be a good baying dogs because there were no locator systems about in those days .....

 

if there is any old black and white photo's that can be posted then that would be great , i do apologise if this has already been done before but i did look back as far as i could and could not see anything ..

 

i dont want this thread turning into a slanging match just some straight answers please , i'm not trying to get anything out this just curious ....

 

i look forward to the replys :thumbs:

[dog fox 16]

cyril tyson ,buck ,brey and what about nuttals father should be an intresting thread this

[bannyboy 3]

Bill Brightmore

[events co-ordinator 353]

My old man is still going out with the same line of terriers they started with 40 years ago two of the same guys are still going out they used to get terriers up from Cumbria in the 70s. He's still killing Foxes regularly him and Jnr will try and find some foties.

[foxfan 479]

Bert Gripton was a bit of a character apparently. Theres plenty who domt get written about.

[lurchers 2,607]

what about graham ward,gary middleton and john park.they have been doing it for that lengh of time.

[Guest alcapone]

Brightmore,parkes,midleton etc wher of the same era as ken gould,nuttall and harcomb. I think wag is refering to the men "pre" the above mentioned like sid wilkinsons and men of that era! Sid wilkinson being the man gary middleton got his dogs off. Im sure there will be many hunt kennels that had good lines of dogs back then,be good to hear of a few and some info.

[madgerboy 11]

Did MB founder and huntsman of Wensleydale foxhounds not also play a big part in terrier breeding and digging before he fell on bad fortune?If I was writing a book he d be my first port of call.

I think also that a lot of the terriers that ended up in the present big names yards came from hunt kennells.Lots of the dogs went and where worked by local terriermen before going out to run with hounds.

Edited November 1, 2010 by madgerboy

[wag 13]

Brightmore,parkes,midleton etc wher of the same era as ken gould,nuttall and harcomb. I think wag is refering to the men "pre" the above mentioned like sid wilkinsons and men of that era! Sid wilkinson being the man gary middleton got his dogs off. Im sure there will be many hunt kennels that had good lines of dogs back then,be good to hear of a few and some info.

 

 

sorry if i did not make it clear , i know what i want to say but it comes out wrong yes i wanted to know before their era , also what type of dogs they would have worked ie russels , borders, pats etc etc ......

 

 

thanks for the replies so far

[turnerboi 27]

alot of dogmen in the eras u speak of were not as great as the dog men of today they would think nothing of doubleing or even more terriers up captain lucas used 50 sealyhams and if they got in they got in. so really ist for the best that we have moved on to were we are

[andrew mark 21 12]

good post

[madgerboy 11]

I think the distinction lies between sport and control.in Ireland in the main lads worked there dogs to test them single handed mostly.when legal in England many good terriermen done likewise therefore the lads testing the dogs at work and not just as a means to an end to kill vermin had/have the best dogs.If your a farmer keep a few terriers had lambs chickens killed ye use whatever means to catch the culprit.double up trench etc.Same can be applied to some foxhound packs the terrierman has to kill fox the huntsmans not fussy how he works his dogs to get the job done.legally speaking for the English lads

[liamdelaney 2,586]

alot of dogmen in the eras u speak of were not as great as the dog men of today they would think nothing of doubleing or even more terriers up captain lucas used 50 sealyhams and if they got in they got in. so really ist for the best that we have moved on to were we are

Not true some did some did not(like today)The great terrier men I hunted with as a child and they were old men at the time.Rody Minogue Roscrea Barney Meehan Pintown legends in our area big hairy arse country men.They kept wire haired fox terriers(as they called them)going back to lines from there fathers and Uncles.We had it to but let it die out we were more in to women when we became teenagers and neglected the line.But they were hard badger digging dogs who never gave an inch or came away and wer allways dug one at a time.And were not spoilt with locators.

[bedrock 16]

I suppose the generation before Nutall and Gould. would have been the likes of Cyril Bray and Frank Buck who’s generation arguably created and refined the fell terrier as we know it.

 

Tommy Dobson working his fell types c1860

Edited November 2, 2010 by bedrock

[Bosun11 537]

John Peel and the Rev Russell...!!

 

Think this one could be a little difficult to answer Wag.

Most on here have mentioned the older names in Plummers Fell Terrier, which is the only difinitive book tracing back older lines and the men who worked 'em. But that only covers Fell Terriers.

I guess your looking for pre-war (wars) stuff, the turn of the last century?

Lucas mentions a few names and lines in his book Hunt & Working Terriers and also both books refer to the old badger digging clubs that existed in number mostley around the south western counties & Wales. Hunt kennels would be the place to start, many keep old photos alongside thier records and some have produced them big coffee table type books. Harcolme has dug up some crackin old photos in his EDRD mags with real old timers from his area, i think these came from hunt records?

How you would collect data, like Plummer must have for Fell terrier, from those areas would be just about impossible i'd bet, it's too vast, because i'm sure every area in this country would have had it's great Terriers and Terriermen and we can bypass the Parson Russell..!!

One of the things that must of helped Plummer was the fact that being set mostly in one sparsley populated county, many old timers knew each other well or were related and the information was passed down.

 

Certainly if someone took on that mammoth task it'd make some reading, maybe Darcy might get a min between best sellers and head south with a pen...?