taking a friend lamping with firearms

[cassshantia 16]

as it states above my friend is keen to come lamping with me with my .17 he said he would use lamp as i shoot , shotguns if supervised you can let someone take a shot as with air rifles etc ,but what is the law regarding him using it ,i know nobody will be about as we are going @mid night tomorrow but just wondering as he might want to come shooting through the day one time ,

also could i take my bigger rifle at the same time as my .17 ?we will be walking all night so could he carry say my .17 and me shoot with .243 ie removing ammo and bolt

just a thought for you guys

any response much appreciated as ive only 22 hrs to get ready

thanks lee n.yorks

ps hope to get out and not to forget the camera this time ,i'll let you know fri some time

[dave1372 83]

as it states above my friend is keen to come lamping with me with my .17 he said he would use lamp as i shoot , shotguns if supervised you can let someone take a shot as with air rifles etc ,but what is the law regarding him using it ,i know nobody will be about as we are going @mid night tomorrow but just wondering as he might want to come shooting through the day one time ,

also could i take my bigger rifle at the same time as my .17 ?we will be walking all night so could he carry say my .17 and me shoot with .243 ie removing ammo and bolt

just a thought for you guys

any response much appreciated as ive only 22 hrs to get ready

thanks lee n.yorks

ps hope to get out and not to forget the camera this time ,i'll let you know fri some time

 

As long as you are supervising your pal yes he can use and carry your rifle.

[Deker 3,455]

There are conditions, but put simply, as long as you are the "occupier", then YES!!!

[dc5 0]

I`m pretty sure that a non fac holder cannot carry one of your firearms

 

You can carry It, give him a shot and then you have to take the gun back.

 

jase.

[Deker 3,455]

I`m pretty sure that a non fac holder cannot carry one of your firearms

 

You can carry It, give him a shot and then you have to take the gun back.

 

jase.

 

 

If the owner of the firearm is the "Occupier" he can give anyone he wants his gun to carry and use all day, even his 5 year old niece!

 

EXEMPTIONS FROM THE REQUIREMENT TO HOLD A CERTIFICATE

 

Shot guns

 

6.14 Section 11(5) of the 1968 Act allows

an individual, without holding a shot gun

certificate, to borrow a shot gun from the

occupier of private premises and use it on

those premises in the occupier’s presence.

The presence of the occupier is normally

taken to mean within sight and earshot of the

individual borrowing the firearm. The term

“occupier†is not defined in the Firearms

Acts, nor has a Court clarified its meaning.

However, the Firearms Consultative

Committee in their 5th Annual report

recommended that the provisions of section

27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981

be adopted. This states that ‘“occupier†in

relation to any land, other than the foreshore,

includes any person having any right of

hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or

fish’. In the absence of any firm definition

for firearms purposes, it is suggested that

each chief officer of police may wish to make

use of this definition. On some occasions

though, where the status of a certificate

holder acting as an occupier is an issue, the

chief officer may need to consider seeking

the advice of counsel. Section 57(4) provides

that “premises†shall include any land. The

borrower may be of any age but an offence

may be committed under section 22(3) if a

minor under the age of 15 is not supervised

by a person over 21 years of age.

 

6.15 Similarly, section 11(6) of the 1968 Act

allows an individual, without holding a shot

gun certificate, to use a shot gun at a time

and place approved for shooting at artificial

targets by the chief officer of police for the

area in which that place is situated. As the

approval of such time and place is prescribed

by law and there may be duty of care issues

involved, chief officers may wish not only

to satisfy themselves that such events are

properly conducted and supervised, but also

to establish that there are no public safety

issues involved. When an exemption is

granted, the chief officer should advise

the organiser that they are responsible for

ensuring, so far as is practicable, that

adequate precautions are taken for the safety

of the participants and any spectators. Shoots

at which participants hold certificates do not

require an exemption under section 11(6).

Organisers operating in conjunction with

business, such as corporate entertainment,

will have additional responsibilities under

the Health and Safety at Work Act.

 

Borrowed rifles on private premises

 

6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a

person to borrow a rifle from the occupier

of private premises and to use it on those

premises in the presence of either the

occupier or their servant without holding a

firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It

should be noted that this gives slightly more

flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than

is permissible with the use of a shot gun

as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the

borrowed rifle can also be used in the

presence of the servant of the occupier.

However, the occupier and/or their servant

must hold a firearm certificate in respect of

the firearm being used, and the borrower,

who must be accompanied by the certificate

holder (whether it is the occupier or their

servant), must comply with the conditions

of the certificate. These may include a

safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,

territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the

1968 Act defines “premises†as including any

land. The effect of the provision is to allow

a person visiting a private estate to borrow

and use a rifle without a certificate. The

exemption does not extend to persons under

the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.

There is no notification required on the

loan of a firearm under these circumstances.

A borrowed rifle should not be specifically

identified as such on a “keeper’s†or

“landowner’s†firearm certificate. The term

“in the presence of†is not defined in law

but is generally interpreted as being within

sight and earshot.

 

6.17 Section 16(2) of the 1988 Act provides

for a person borrowing a rifle in accordance

with section 16(1) of the 1988 Act to

purchase or acquire ammunition for use in

the rifle, and to have it in their possession

during the period for which the rifle is

borrowed, without holding a certificate. The

borrower’s possession of the ammunition

must comply with the conditions on the

certificate of the person in whose presence

they are and the amount of ammunition

borrowed must not exceed that which the

certificate holder is authorised to have in

their possession at that time. It should be

noted that the borrower may only take

possession of the ammunition during the

period of the loan of the rifle at which time

they will be in the presence of the certificate

holder. If the persons selling or handing

over the ammunition are not certificate

holders, it may be necessary for them to

see the certificate to satisfy themselves that

the terms of this section have been met and

that the amount of ammunition the borrower

wishes to acquire is no greater than that

which the certificate holder is authorised

to possess. However, the details of the

transaction need not be recorded on

the certificate.

[SportingShooter 0]

Also as an addition to the above from Deker,

 

The "Occupier" is defined in the Home Office guidance as the same as Sec.27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. This sections states that an "occupier" means anyone with the right to hunt, shoot or fish over land.

 

Hence you are covered in that respect. However. My home force does not follow the above definition and follows strictly the wording of the "Estate Condition" which means it has to be a landowner or his employee.

 

Best to check, as I had a really heated argument with my force (via letter) but they would not budge for some reason.

[matt_hooks 188]

The only reason it would be a problem is if your mate falls under the status of "prohibited person" under the firearms act.

 

According to the Hertfordshire Constabulary site (it was the first one came up on google)

 

"What is a prohibited person?

 

A person who has been sentenced to preventive detention or to imprisonment or to corrective training for a term of three years or more; or who has been sentenced to be detained in a young offenders' institution in Scotland, shall not, at any time, have a firearm or ammunition in his possession.

 

This means for life and includes all firearms, even air weapons.

 

A person who has been sentenced to borstal training, to corrective training for less than three years, or to imprisonment for a term of three months or more, but less than three years; or who has been sentenced to be detained for such a term in a detention centre or in a young offenders' institution in Scotland, shall not at any time before the expiration of a period of five years, from the date of his release, have a firearm or ammunition in his possession.

 

It is also an offence for a person to sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition to, or repair, test or prove a firearm or ammunition for, a person whom he knows or has reasonable grounds for believing to be prohibited from having a firearm or ammunition in his possession."

 

As long as you are on land that you have permission to shoot on you should be covered!